boat driving licences

[Guest]

Prompted by this with the thread just one below. As far as I know, anyone can buy a boat and just drive about in it.

Q1: What is the limit to the size of boat that a private indiv can drive for own use. Somebody said that it was eighty feet. the sunseeker sale bods says that 50% of their 80 footers are owner driven

Q2: What's a "Ticket"? - as described by some bloke (sunsail) who said he was with the merchant navy and "got his ticket". What's that then, I asked. Somewhat bemnused he described that he had worked for three years, done a theory exam or two, and then an oral examination. He didn't seem to know what the qualification was, so perhaps it was a level one. I asked what the oral examination comprised. "A bloke asks you questions, and I had to answer them" he responded. Hmm.

 

[byron]

'TICKET' is generally the way commercially qualified people refer to their qualification. 3rd Mate's Ticket, 2nd Mate's Ticket, 1st Mate's Ticket, Master's Ticket, extra Master's Ticket, then there are variations on that. You can in fact hold a Master's Ticket (Captain) and have a lesser job. i.e. On P&O Liners almost everyone on the Bridge right down to Junior Third Officer will hold a Master's Ticket.
There are other things too. Within a shipping line the term "Marine Superintendant" will often refer to the most senior Captain the line has and is used rather than the term 'Commodore' . Some bigger companies will appoint shore based jobs to these guys and even have one for each continent. Marine S. - Europe and so on.

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[Guest]

Re: lots more questions

Are these the only licences? Are they administered by the MCA? Supposing our friend wanted to take paying guests out, would he need one? Suppose there were less or more than 12? Does 3rd mate ticket qualify one to skippper a small commercial craft, but only hand out lager on a ferry? Will a charter skipper of a reasonably massive powerboat have a qualification such as this?

Funny really, how theredoesn't seem to be any reference to the commercial world in the boat mags. If you're a private pilot, part of the exam is to know what qualification you need and when. Even the yachtmaster doesn't make reference to these "tickets"as far as I know.

 

[byron]

Re: lots more questions

Personally I would say a 3rd Mate's Ticket is way above a regular Yachtmaster Coastal and an Ocean Masters is almost as good as a Master Mariners. Certainly I would expect a 3rd Mate to be able to stand a Watch on his own aboard a freighter/tanker. HOWEVER! Who recognises what is a bit of a nightmare. I believe the Dutch (technically) do not recognise a Master Mariner's ability to take a Yacht into their inshore waters... but the QE2 would be OK if it would fit ;-)
In short, who knows? All you could do is draft searching questions and address them to the MCA bearing in mind that what is OK here may not be OK abroad. You can then get into the realms of flagging out, I mean what happens if a yacht is flagged Panama under international law a Panamanian Master's Ticket should be sufficient but what if you are using the craft within the 3 mile limit maybe local bye-laws are enforcable.

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[trev]

Re: lots more questions

There is a wealth of difference between the RYA certs and the DTI Yacht certs and again a wealth of difference between the 'Yachtmaster's'and 'Master Mariner's ' certificates.
DTI commercial certs start at a 'Class 5', which is good for limited tonnage on limited voyages, either as Master or Mate - depending on nature of trade. The 'top' cert is a Class 1 'Master Mariner' which deals with all aspects of running, loading, discharging, handling, business and law, contruction, navigation etc etc., of tankers, bulk carriers, container ships, liners etc etc.
To get any of these 'tickets' you have to 'serve your time' and then attend college followed by examination - not for the faint hearted !!
It is possible to buy a 'ticket' from several dodgy states but no operator worth his salt would employ you - which doesn't mean there isn't a huge number of cowboys out there - so be very careful !!!

Trev

 

[Guest]

Re: room for a boat article praps?

It all seems more complex the anyone explains. praps I'm not making clear just how thick and clueless I actually am in this regard. One chap said he "joined the merchant navy". Where is this? if one gets a job pulling ropes or handing out lager on a p&O ferry -is that the merchant navy?

If one wants to fly massive jets, then PPL, then speak to airlines, then IFR, college then blah and then type ratings and so forth. Much murkier it seems regarding boats and ships.

Praps the nice shiny new Will Stirling at MBY will write an article about it once he's sorted that rather fabulous assignment of marine finance, while the others have to review monster boats and go to Miami and Paris shows.

 

[byron]

Re: lots more questions

When I stated that I regarded an Ocean Master as almost as good as a Master Mariner's Ticket I didn't mean that they would know the whole nine yards, I just meant that they were almost on a par in terms of navigation, great circle, astro nav, etc.
This subject has so many ramifications that if we ain't careful we'll be off on a multitude of tangents. So I am going to leave it well alone otherwise I will end up discussing DTI licences which only extend to the Lower Hope, Boatman's licences and even West Country Rights. What a minefield

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[Guest]

Matt, does this mean that once the free skippers 6 months is up the Leopard will become a floating villa.

 

[jfm]

Will Sterling - boat article praps?

Well researched article wd be excellent. I have been sailing, only recreationally, since a child and read zillions of boat mags but I remain to this day confused about what is what in the owrld of licences. The RYA publications do not explain clearly. Even in the small sphere of RYA certificates, it turns out there is a "full" yachtmaster as opposed to an ordinary RYA one.

It would be great to see a start-to-finish line beginning wiv Powerboat level 123 then progress through day skip, coastal skip, yachtmaster, then big boat tickets. I know there isn't a strict "order" but a journo could apply reasonable judgement and assemble a pecking order. And it could be UK RYA/MCA based so ignore panama tickets.

Any chance Will?

 

[Guest]

Re: It\'s an \"i\"

and not "sterling" as his IT dept decided when giving him the username. or praps he is very young indeed so can't spell his name. Hope you saw the Marine Finance Zone piece I did in case he was related to Rod Sterling of the Twilight Zone. Cept, he says, he's nothing to do with that bloke. Or so he says....spooky eh? doo-dee doo-dee doo-dee oops no that the Outer Limits. Or some other junk.

 

[DiverTitch]

Re: lots more questions

You can buy and take your "ship" to sea with however many friends you like, 10, 20 whatever but if you take money or any other type of payment you must certify your vessel under one of the Codes of Practic. Under the codes you will be restricted to 12 pax +2 crew, the distance from shore or home port you can go and the type of quals you need. The lowest qualification is for the Red code (Nominated Point of Departure) 3 mile. All you would need for this is a RYA level 2 with... and this applies to all skippers tickets used under any code.....a commurcial endorsment. All vessels taking fare paying passengers for any type of activity must comply with a code. MCA will give you full details.

 

[Guest]

Re: hem

Hopefully not. I am confident that it will be okay for me to drive boat about for personal use. Mr Useless next door seems to manage it, so we'll be fine. Bigger boats get loads of space and help even though they need proprtionally less. And I have enuf mobile radios for very smart yet pointless chat chat about fenders, anchor chains and suchlike on ch 10 that they all do in English regardless of flag, it seems. Or "mobile eight to helm, you appear to have hit the dock with your stern." "Mobile eight this is helm, forgive me, it's raining in this part of the boat" and such. But if the skipper wants/will do charters (and if they don't it can get a bit boring for them, so 15grand for a week blamming up to St Tropez seems ok to me) l have no idea what if any "tickets" they need

 

[jfm]

Re: It\'s an \"i\"

Ooh sorry Will for spelling yr name incorrectly, I was in hurry and quite incompetent

 

[jfm]

Re: gratuities again

Of course skip will want to do charters, not to reduce boredom but to earn massive gratuities qv.

Have heard that Tandy headset radios are good for berthing, so both hands are free, not used them myself but seen megayacht crews use them in med (no doubt not £35 Tandy jobs but just the same)

 

[Guest]

Re: It\'s an \"i\"

Gentlemen
Sirname: common error, happens all the time. Sterling is more common than the superior and more distinguised "i" version.

Boat driving licences: This is a subject close to my heart and I would be happy to do a story on it, laying out the whole complex subject and exposing the limitations and functions of each RYA, DTi and MCA licence, how to obtain them, what they entitle you to drive and in which waters they are valid.

I have an RYA Yachtmaster and began my MCA Class 4 Deck Officer ticket when crewing superyachts, but at this stage you make a decision about a career at sea or whether you escape to a sane life ashore. Did I make the right decision? Yes and no... but if the licence story would be of interest to enough readers, I'm sure I'd get the nod from Cpt. Harper of MBY.

W

 

[jfm]

Re: forthcoming articles

Will, seriously, I think that would be an excellent article to do in depth and do clearly. As stated above, it is incredibly confusing at the moment.

What other articles/ideas are in your pipeline? New thread praps? Probly worth airing this on the forum praps? Not wishing to sound unkind but there have been astonishingly bad articles in MBY (hand held plotters this summer still annoys me) so it's refreshing to see you discussing your ideas while they're still work in progress. Best wishes

 

[Guest]

Re: forthcoming articles

Will (not very seriously at all...) the Port of Call series is excellent. Indeed, I am very much loking forward to a mouldbreaking Marseilles feature next month which will possibly be very witty unless all the gas have been subbed. Forthcoming other Ports of Call should include Antibes perhaps, and Cannes, and indeed erm St Tropez, Nice, Golfe Juan, Ste Maxime, Villefranche, Villeneuve-Loubet and er well probly that's about it.

Also, most intrested that MBY is now jostling with oddbins, who are oh so blimmin serious about wine. So how about a nice series "What's It Like To Drink A Whole Case Of..." or "twenty ways of getting into a bottle of wine without a corkscrew" or "The Great Sloshed - How much Balvenie do you really need to get people to buy a monthly magazine ?"

 

[Guest]

Re: forthcoming articles

Will, BAD idea to ask the opinion of the forum as to what you should write about, since if you don't repeat Matt and jfm's opinions word for word and agree what super chaps they are and how they should be in charge of everything, they'll give you a right going over as soon as the article appears. Of course if you agree with them and do repeat word for word, they'll then give you a right going over for not having any original thoughts or opinions of your own and will probably accuse you of taking back handers from Balvenie or Soltron as well.

;-)

 

[Guest]

Re: forthcoming articles

Ohh how very nasty. How about an article on how not to prat about with a digital camera, Will? I have some suitable piccies, with subject being laughed at by a small boy, in Cannes.

 

[Guest]

Re: forthcoming articles

See Will. If you dare criticise, they then resort to threats and blackmail ;-)