Boat buing in the States

[30boat]

This is probably just a dream but I have been looking at brokers in the States and was amazed at how low prices can be in comparison with what we get in Europe,especially in the UK.
I could be in the market for something between 10 an 13 meters . Condition is impossible to judge from their pictures but some of the boats seemed to be in good fettle,altough one can never be shure and it would really require a long stay there and a lot of trips to find something good.
Does anybody have any experience with this kind of situation?Any pitfalls ?
What kind of taxes is one supposed to pay on arrival ?
What about making a lanfall in Madeira Island?I understand that VAT is lower there.
Thanks

 

[jamesjermain]

Probably not worth it

There are a two main pitfalls to buying in the United States apart from the obvious ones such as the cost and risk of delivery, difficulty in checking quality and proving title plus different legal systems and paper work.

1) You will have to pay VAT. This is not a huge problem in itself although it will obviously cost an additional 15 to 17.5 per cent of the value as assessed by the excise man at the port of entry. Choosing your country of entry can make a difference.Madera is cerainly an option.

2) The most serious problem concerns the RCD regulations. If the boat does not have a CE mark, which very few boats built and sold in the USA will, you will have to have the boat surveyed and certificated once it is over here. This can cost several thousand pounds just for the survey which may then throw up some expensive modifications. This process applies, even is the model you are buying is available in the UK with a CE mark

By the time you have taken into consideration delivery, VAT, RCD compliance and a one or more trips to the States to view and do the paperwork, plus the hassle, buying secondhand boats in the States for import into the EC is probably not worth it. Buying to keep in the Caribbean, for example, could be another matter.

JJ

 

[jimboaw]

Re: Probably well worth it

As an ex-pat Brit I have to disagree with just about everything James Jermain says. Is he a broker?? There are some serious bargains to be had here in Florida right now. For example. a Moody 33mk3 in very good order with Hydrovane, new standing and running rigging for $28.000. Sold. add 17.5% and you still save about 9,000 quid on UK price. Title? No problem, all state title docs list mortgages and agents are available to handle paperwork for very reasonable fees. Surveys? at least one ex-pat Brit surveyor in Fort Lauderdale. Delivery? thats a DIY job for a summer vacation. CE mark?? older boats never had them anyway.

 

[harvey]

Re: RCD and VAT

If the buyer can prove that the boat had been inside a European Dependancy country's water prior to 16 June 1998 then an Exemption Certificate can be obtained which relieves the buyer of having to comply with RCD rules. So, if the buyer is able to get hold of a marina bill from the British Virgin Islands, Martinique, Bermuda etc etc then it'll cost about £100. Not bad really....... Oh yes, VAT is significantly cheaper in the Azores (10%?) and the documents will take about 10 days to arrange.

 

[davidhand]

Re: Probably well worth it

I agree but you have to be careful which make of boat you pick, I would not take a US or Canadian boat back to Europe, appart from the CE mark thing they would not be well known there and therefore would not have a high value. The boat you mention would be a good boat as Moodys and Westerlys are not too well known here and sell well below the UK market price. If they were made for US sale you would however have to rewire for 240 V shore power. You would probably not have to pay state sales tax if you were taking the boat out of the country right away.

 

[jamesjermain]

I\'m certainly not a broker!

Unfortunately, ANY boat imported into the EC on a permanent basis has to be certificated as complying with the RCD whatever age she is. Basically, the EC says any boat appearing in its waters for the first time must be a new boat and must be treated accordingly. If the boat is to be used on a lake or sheltered waters, it might be possible to self-certificate.

I take your point on price, certainly boats which command a premium price in Britain but are not well known in North America, can appear to be bargains. However, I am not sure I would buy a boat unseen, with unchecked paper work, nor am I convinced I would want to sail an unproven Moody 33 back across the Atlantic as a first major voyage - but perhaps I'm getting old.

JJ

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: I\'m certainly not a broker!

>nor am I convinced I would want to sail an unproven Moody 33 back across the Atlantic as a first major voyage - but perhaps I'm getting old.<

Maybe you are getting old, but so am I. Wasn't there a story a couple of years back about a guy who bought a Co32 in the Caribbean, pretty much sight unseen, and it all went sadly wrong on the voyage back, so that they had to abandon ship? Last I heard he was trying to do self-repairs in an boatyard on the US east coast, after the boat was found drifting

 

[jamesjermain]

True. nm

.

JJ

 

[jimboaw]

Re: I\'m certainly not a broker!

Who said anything about buying a boat "unseen"?? Cetainly not me! Transatlantic airfares are a drop in the ocean when compared to the cost of a boat. Combine your boat viewing with a holiday or two and sure, once you make a purchase get in some sea time. If you buy in Florida, an offshore passage up the coast to the Chesapeake Bay will be long enough to find any problems with lots of places along the way to get them fixed. Bye the way, the Moody I reffered to started out life in Southampton so already had a crossing under her keel.

 

[NigeCh]

The numbers work better the other way round

Buy a boat in Europe and then sail/ship it to the States ...

(Can't advertise)

Nige

 

[brianrunyard]

Re: Probably well worth it

With regard to your statement "CE mark?? older boats never had them anyway."
Any boat imported to the EU now has to have the CE mark, regardless of age.

Brian
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/brunyard

 

[Twister_Ken]

No grandfather clause?

>Basically, the EC says any boat appearing in its waters for the first time must be a new boat and must be treated accordingly.<

Not disputing what you say, but if it is correct it seems crazy. So If I wanted to buy, let's say, Ticonderoga - the famous 72ft Herreshoff Ketch - (chance would be a fine thing) and bring it back to European waters, I'd need to get it through an RCD certification. Despite the fact that it has been safely sailing the seven seas for two-thirds of a century. Truly bizarre.

 

[wjflier]

just my 2 cents, Im in Florida and have purchased 2 sailboats this year, one a 22' catalina paid $750.00, did little clean up and sold for $2500.00( it's true value) and the next a 25' Watkins, I paid half the appraised price. you have to remember us yanks are a generouse lot, we often give boats and autos to charities, just to make room for more toys. If you search, you'll find just about anything you want, with a little patience, and at a bargain. Who knows maybe I'll begin a search business here

happy sailing Brits

 

[brianrunyard]

2.5m to 24m

At 72ft the RCD applies, unless it was designed before 1950 and built from the original materials. If it was about 8ft longer (over 24m) the RCD wouldn't apply.

Brian
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/brunyard

 

[minrags]

It certainly is worthwhile! Unlike most of the other people that replied to your question I have bought in the USA and imported back to the UK.
There are thousands of cheap boats out there and a great deal of them put European boats to shame. The choice is fantastic and there are real bargains to be had. Here are a few tips:
1. Do your homework (especially on the "web") before you go out.
2. Treat the time out there as a holiday. You'll need a car.
3. There are many European boats at prices in dollars that you will pay in pounds over here. And you do not need RCD for them. Neither do you have VAT to pay if it is a "grandaddy"
4. Have a "walk through" done by a surveyor before you go if you have a definate "boat" in mind. Cost: about $100-$150
5. No taxes to pay out there if you leave USA. And only state taxes (some states only) if you don't.
6. I have always found surveyors very helpful. and generally cheaper than here. So have it surveyed.
7. Proving title is easily and cheaply accomplished. $50 will pay for all the documentation done by a third party agent. I have found it much more comprehensive than over here.
8. Sail it back if possible. Thats what it's all about. Plenty of people willing to crew.
9. Pay VAT in the azores. 12.5%. and I have had it completed in 3 days!
10. RCD can be overcome when you get back if it does not comply. RYA have a DIY scheme jointly with the Irish. The company CE proof is very helpful and of course there is the exemption angle.

All in all GO FOR IT!
11.