Boat-break up and disposal

[RunAgroundHard]

I would argue there is in so much as they require the person that hires them to demonstrate that they are in control of the contractor specifically that he is not a liability for the marina and its customers. Contractor management is a minefield.

No, because marina are not contracting, likely will not have the skills either and puts an unnecessary burden on the marina that is not required. The boat owner who engages a contractor to work on their boat, does not need to either, as they too might not have the skills. Hence why, the only requirement is that boat owner has insurance with 3rd party liability, and contractor has 3rd party liability.

It is importantly that marina does not transfer risk from contractor to themselves e.g. you only use approved contractor and we control the work. If there is an incident, then marina may have a degree of liability as they “approved work”, however you wish to define that.

Let’s be real, all marinas that I am aware of, except the inland waterways, don’t give a shit about the state of the boat’s gas system, nor who works on it. It’s all hands off, boat owners problem, just keep your insurance up to date.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

No, because marina are not contracting, likely will not have the skills either and puts an unnecessary burden on the marina that is not required. The boat owner who engages a contractor to work on their boat, does not need to either, as they too might not have the skills. Hence why, the only requirement is that boat owner has insurance with 3rd party liability, and contractor has 3rd party liability.

It is importantly that marina does not transfer risk from contractor to themselves e.g. you only use approved contractor and we control the work. If there is an incident, then marina may have a degree of liability as they “approved work”, however you wish to define that.

Let’s be real, all marinas that I am aware of, except the inland waterways, don’t give a shit about the state of the boat’s gas system, nor who works on it. It’s all hands off, boat owners problem, just keep your insurance up to date.

Insurance and HASWAR are totally unrelated.

 

[dgadee]

There is no employer if I do work on my engine etc.

I think you are grasping at disaster straws.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

There is no employer if I do work on my engine etc.

I think you are grasping at disaster straws.

You are not a contractor. However a marina might consider constraining the type or all the work you can do on your boat if it felt that it was necessary and could be justified by quoting the duty of care of others part of HASAWA. Over the top perhaps but it's a commercial decision for the marina.

 

[Refueler]

Outside Contractor and Insurance .... having had conversations with Marina bosses - the Insurance item was interesting ...

I have to put it in street terms -

They mentioned that require Contractor to be insured - to state they have it. But the Marina did not want to SEE or read the Insurance - as then they would need to make sure all avenues met requirements. If the Contractor signed an Entry Application stating they had insurance and Marina not liable ... or even verbally - then Marina accepted.

Marina's applied the same 'logic' to insurance of the boats to be in the Marina ... if owner stated insured - then Marina was covered. This actually was confirmed when I went to hand my Insurance docs to a Marina after agreeing to move to them ... boss quietly sid - please put back in your pocket ... I haven't seen it.

I am only repeating what was told to me by Marina bosses I knew.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

My marina, Scotland, emails on the anniversary of my insurance renewal and asks for a copy of the new insurance certificate to be placed on file. They require £3Million 3rd party liability, which is all they are interested in.

 

[Refueler]

My marina, Scotland, emails on the anniversary of my insurance renewal and asks for a copy of the new insurance certificate to be placed on file. They require £3Million 3rd party liability, which is all they are interested in.

A Marina is interested in 2 items :

The level of 3rd Party liability coverage.
and
Wreck recovery / removal.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

A Marina is interested in 2 items :

The level of 3rd Party liability coverage.
and
Wreck recovery / removal.

Providing there isn't a reportable accident, serious injury or death that's when other agencies get involved.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

My marina, Scotland, emails on the anniversary of my insurance renewal and asks for a copy of the new insurance certificate to be placed on file. They require £3Million 3rd party liability, which is all they are interested in.

Similarly in Essex!

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Similarly in Essex!

From memory I was never asked to prove insurance at any marina or boatyard that I was berthed in from the SW to East Coast and many more where I was a visitor. The berthing contracts that I signed may well have required it ( almost certainly did) and in signing I agreed to it as it's not an unreasonable requirement.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

From memory I was never asked to prove insurance at any marina or boatyard that I was berthed in from the SW to East Coast and many more where I was a visitor. The berthing contracts that I signed may well have required it ( almost certainly did) and in signing I agreed to it as it's not an unreasonable requirement.

One time I forgot to forward the insurance certificate, I was asked for it. Now I just forward the PDF when I receive it from my insurer

 

[Refueler]

From memory I was never asked to prove insurance at any marina or boatyard that I was berthed in from the SW to East Coast and many more where I was a visitor. The berthing contracts that I signed may well have required it ( almost certainly did) and in signing I agreed to it as it's not an unreasonable requirement.

Which is my experience when I lived / boated in UK. As I posted earlier - I was even told by Marina bosses that they did not want to read or have copies as that meant they would then be liable if Insurance was not up to level required. Their question to boat owner "Do you have insurance for the boat and to cover 3rd party liabilitys' and the affirmative from owner was sufficient.
Should cover turn out to be less - they said then put onus on boat owner.

As told to me by bosses. I have not any claim events or incidents that can support such .. I just take their word.

I would think by now that all Insurance offered covers at least or more the level a Marina requires .. so if as some say - they are providing docs to Marina ... even Basic Boat gives required levels and Wreck Recovery.

 

[KevinV]

My club require you to tick an "I have sufficient insurance" box on joining, and on the form for any yard manoeuvres. I asked why they didn't just hold a copy of the certificate and (as above) they said that then they could then be deemed to have accepted it as suitable - putting the onus on them if it proved not to be.
The same logic would apply to a contractor I think.

 

[Keith 66]

At least a wooden boat can be disposed of & may have some scrap value. I have broken up a fair few, It is unlikely to have any re usable timber in its hull but may have some inside in form of T&G mahogany bulkheads, tables, or high quality plywood, Seen the price of new marine ply?
A wooden boat will be either copper or bronze fastened or if an old fishing vessel iron fastened, If the latter no value.
But burn a non ferrous fastened boat & its fastenings are worth some money.
Heavy copper £6.20 per Kg, Brass £3.60 per kg, Gunmetal £5.40 per kg, Lead keel if you are lucky, £1.00 per kg
Alloy spars are likely to class as irony alloy due to prescence of old pop rivets tails so £1.70 per kg.
Iron keels = Heavy iron at £1.30 per kg, Stainless steel £5.10 per Kg.
The above is a snapshot of what scrap is fetching today from one scap yard group, some may do better some less.
So chainsaw the boat up & feed the bits into a fire & sieve the metal out. Good little earner for a few days work, providing you have somewhere that doesnt mind you doing it!
But a grp boat leaves you with a fibreglass wart to put into landfill.

 

[dgadee]

Travelling from UK to Turkish waters, I was constantly asked to produce my insurance document. My club requires sight. These must be very odd marinas who think that not seeing something is the way to go.

 

[dgadee]

At least a wooden boat can be disposed of & may have some scrap value. I have broken up a fair few, It is unlikely to have any re usable timber in its hull but may have some inside in form of T&G mahogany bulkheads, tables, or high quality plywood, Seen the price of new marine ply?
A wooden boat will be either copper or bronze fastened or if an old fishing vessel iron fastened, If the latter no value.
But burn a non ferrous fastened boat & its fastenings are worth some money.
Heavy copper £6.20 per Kg, Brass £3.60 per kg, Gunmetal £5.40 per kg, Lead keel if you are lucky, £1.00 per kg
Alloy spars are likely to class as irony alloy due to prescence of old pop rivets tails so £1.70 per kg.
Iron keels = Heavy iron at £1.30 per kg, Stainless steel £5.10 per Kg.
The above is a snapshot of what scrap is fetching today from one scap yard group, some may do better some less.
So chainsaw the boat up & feed the bits into a fire & sieve the metal out. Good little earner for a few days work, providing you have somewhere that doesnt mind you doing it!
But a grp boat leaves you with a fibreglass wart to put into landfill.

If the steel is pre-nuclear age, it is worth more. Post nuclear there is contamination. But probably not worth so much in the quantities in a fishing boat.

 

[Refueler]

My club require you to tick an "I have sufficient insurance" box on joining, and on the form for any yard manoeuvres. I asked why they didn't just hold a copy of the certificate and (as above) they said that then they could then be deemed to have accepted it as suitable - putting the onus on them if it proved not to be.
The same logic would apply to a contractor I think.

Actually come to think about it ... the Clubs I was member of duri8ng my UK boating also same ... owner to confirm they have Insurance ... but not providing docs.

 

[dgadee]

Actually come to think about it ... the Clubs I was member of duri8ng my UK boating also same ... owner to confirm they have Insurance ... but not providing docs.

Storm Babet sunk a couple of boats belonging to the other club in Granton Harbour. One was left for a few weeks and sunk into the mud and couldn't be lifted. These things happen more frequently, I suggest, than problems with owners doing engine repairs.

If I was running a club I would certainly not take someone's word on having insurance. Easier to get insurers to pay out than to start a civil case against a member who may have no money anyway.

Ps: depending on how the club is legally structured, the committee members may be personally responsible ...

 

[Snowgoose-1]

If I was running a club I would certainly not take someone's word on having insurance. Easier to get insurers to pay out than to start a civil case against a member who may have no money anyway.

I think most marinas require a copy of the insurance cover note .
There are grey areas though.
I experienced the theft of some electronics which were unscrewed from the boat. It was with a broker on their hardstanding . It wasn't a huge amount and we settled on 50/50.

 

[Boathook]

I think most marinas require a copy of the insurance cover note .
There are grey areas though.
I experienced the theft of some electronics which were unscrewed from the boat. It was with a broker on their hardstanding . It wasn't a huge amount and we settled on 50/50.

I've never been asked to show my insurance to the boatyard where i was moored, nor ever been asked when visiting marina's.