Boat-break up and disposal

[ducked]

There was an article years ago detailing the design / idea of the Waterwitch and the reference to Barge. It was listed in the Association along with Eventides and the other boats - but was not designed by the same people.

I have the article somewhere .. I did consider building one ...

Pretty sure they are both Maurice Griffiths designs, though I havný looked it up to confirm my memory. IIRC he had a barge yacht (or possibly even an actual Thames sailing barge, they were very cheap postwar, but they are also REALLY BIG, so I think a barge yacht) for a while and that probably explains the origin of, and motivation for the idea.

 

[Tamar]

I hope it's not a growing trend of boatyards not allowing owners to work on their own boats in the yard. Our Marina has banned anything that involves ladders, tools, and paintbrushes. Instead they will do the jobs at a huge cost. Most boat owners can't afford this, so boats will just decay and get to be unusable

 

[Snowgoose-1]

I hope it's not a growing trend of boatyards not allowing owners to work on their own boats in the yard. Our Marina has banned anything that involves ladders, tools, and paintbrushes. Instead they will do the jobs at a huge cost. Most boat owners can't afford this, so boats will just decay and get to be unusable

Do you think that this is just a case of a marina going for extra business or perhaps insurance costs ?

Could be that marinas can make enough money selling berths without other responsibilities.

 

[Tamar]

Do you think that this is just a case of a marina going for extra business or perhaps insurance costs ?

Could be that marinas can make enough money selling berths without other responsibilities.

Possibly a bit of both.

 

[dgadee]

I hope it's not a growing trend of boatyards not allowing owners to work on their own boats in the yard. Our Marina has banned anything that involves ladders, tools, and paintbrushes. Instead they will do the jobs at a huge cost. Most boat owners can't afford this, so boats will just decay and get to be unusable

There is a labour shortage in the marine industry. Good luck to those yards thinking they can exploit the poor yachtsman. They will never get a full, good quality workforce to do the work.

 

[Boathook]

I hope it's not a growing trend of boatyards not allowing owners to work on their own boats in the yard. Our Marina has banned anything that involves ladders, tools, and paintbrushes. Instead they will do the jobs at a huge cost. Most boat owners can't afford this, so boats will just decay and get to be unusable

Is this in the UK ? I always thought it was a foreign 'thing', especially in the med.
Not being able to do my own maintenance will stop me owning a boat !

 

[Refueler]

Many Marinas have had the 'Contractor' clauses .. where they limit outside contractors coming when there are on-site contractors.

I know some here have argued that I was wrong ... but in the 3 Marinas I had my boat in UK and also having inspected boats in many areas of Uk - I can say - that was a common clause in Marina contract.

You could use your own chosen Contractor - but as per contract - Marina had to be informed before work commenced ... Marina had right to refuse contractor ... a few I knew even stated a deposit to be paid ! But that last one as I understand it was outlawed ..

It may seem at first to be heavy handedness by Marina ... but whern there are contractors on-site trying to make a living and pay Marina rent for office / workshop etc - if they don't have enough work - both contractor and Marina lose out.

 

[dgadee]

Many Marinas have had the 'Contractor' clauses .. where they limit outside contractors coming when there are on-site contractors.

I know some here have argued that I was wrong ... but in the 3 Marinas I had my boat in UK and also having inspected boats in many areas of Uk - I can say - that was a common clause in Marina contract.

You could use your own chosen Contractor - but as per contract - Marina had to be informed before work commenced ... Marina had right to refuse contractor ... a few I knew even stated a deposit to be paid ! But that last one as I understand it was outlawed ..

It may seem at first to be heavy handedness by Marina ... but whern there are contractors on-site trying to make a living and pay Marina rent for office / workshop etc - if they don't have enough work - both contractor and Marina lose out.

The poor yachtsman loses out more.

 

[penberth3]

....It may seem at first to be heavy handedness by Marina ... but whern there are contractors on-site trying to make a living and pay Marina rent for office / workshop etc - if they don't have enough work - both contractor and Marina lose out.

IMHO it's more about safety. Marinas don't want random people turning up and doing stupid and dangerous things on their premises. As for scrapping a boat on site as per the OP, that's an even bigger can of worms!

 

[AntarcticPilot]

IMHO it's more about safety. Marinas don't want random people turning up and doing stupid and dangerous things on their premises. As for scrapping a boat on site as per the OP, that's an even bigger can of worms!

And Marinas are responsible for H&S on their premises. That's the justification I've been given by marina management for restrictions on contractors. I guess it's a condition of their insurance.

 

[dgadee]

And Marinas are responsible for H&S on their premises. That's the justification I've been given by marina management for restrictions on contractors. I guess it's a condition of their insurance.

It's the Health and Safety at Work Act. Focused on employees and workplaces. It's a bit of a step from that to stopping me from servicing an engine or similar.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I doubt very much that it has changed but control of contractors can be done by devolving the responsibility under HASWA to the contractor but clearly specifying the limit of his operation both in terms of area and what he is allowed to do.It would require an oversight of things like his risk assessments and a clearly marked area of work and responsibility. The alternative is to take over the H&S responsibility entirely ( not an appealing option) Both require a significant amount of work.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I doubt very much that it has changed but control of contractors can be done by devolving the responsibility under HASWA to the contractor but clearly specifying the limit of his operation both in terms of area and what he is allowed to do.It would require an oversight of things like his risk assessments and a clearly marked area of work and responsibility. The alternative is to take over the H&S responsibility entirely ( not an appealing option) Both require a significant amount of work.

In other words, both approaches require action by the marina.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

In other words, both approaches require action by the marina.

Correct, one is considerably more onerous than the other.

 

[dgadee]

In other words, both approaches require action by the marina.

It is not binary. The third option is to leave responsibility with the (insured - they ask for sight of documents) customer who is not subject to the Health and Safety at Work Act.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

It is not binary. The third option is to leave responsibility with the (insured - they ask for sight of documents) customer who is not subject to the Health and Safety at Work Act.

Such an approach in the event of something going wrong could lead to multiple worlds of pain for multiple people.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

In other words, both approaches require action by the marina.

Correct, one is considerably more onerous than the other.

It is not binary. The third option is to leave responsibility with the (insured - they ask for sight of documents) customer who is not subject to the Health and Safety at Work Act.

Marina only has responsibility for 3rd parties if they have contracted them, otherwise there is no responsibility. Marinas manage this situation by only allowing contractor in if they register and demonstrate third party assurance. There is no responsibility on marina to verify non contracted 3rd parties risk assessments, work methods or competency.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Marina only has responsibility for 3rd parties if they have contracted them, otherwise there is no responsibility. Marinas manage this situation by only allowing contractor in if they register and demonstrate third party assurance. There is no responsibility on marina to verify non contracted 3rd parties risk assessments, work methods or competency.

I would argue there is in so much as they require the person that hires them to demonstrate that they are in control of the contractor specifically that he is not a liability for the marina and its customers. Contractor management is a minefield.

 

[dgadee]

Such an approach in the event of something going wrong could lead to multiple worlds of pain for multiple people.

I am just pointing out the current position in most yards. Where are the pains being felt?

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I am just pointing out the current position in most yards. Where are the pains being felt?

When the shit hits the fan as in most cases.

Technically the responsibility and control falls to the employer and this would be the boat owner, however the marina operator has a duty of care to other occupants and would simply find it to onerous to ensure that the boat owner was doing what was necessary for the marina to meet its duty of care responsibility. It therefore if it is wise uses the nuclear option of a blanket ban.