Blue water insurance

[john_q]

Dear all – can you help?

I am trying to get insurance (3rd party or fully comp) for a Trans Atlantic and beyond trip starting this year. I have seen various threads on the forum but still need help.

I have a Robert Tucker steel ketch built in the 70’s which we have taken across the pond before and is having a major re fit as we speak. The crew will consist of myself and SWMBO only. I have no problem getting a survey done if required – will probably get it done anyway.

In summary – so far I have had very high quotes for fully comp (£2,500 – £3,500 PA) and can find no one who offers 3rd party only

Having spoken to the usual culprits from the yachting press ads, I have summarised the progress so far

 James Steele - existing insurer - No 3rd party cover available, £3,500 pa fully comp with 3 crew min
 Admiral – underwriters say no to any type cover due age and low boat value
 GJW direct will not do fully comp
 Panataneus – no longer offer 3rd party for Atlantic, only offer this cover for Europe and the Med to new customers - would probably do fully comp (£2,500 Pa) but want 3 crew
 Bishop Skinner – looks a possible for fully comp
 Yacht Insurance (Traffords) – do not offer this type of cover
 Yacht Line – do not offer this type of cover
 Navigator and General - do not offer this type of cover
 St Margaret – Boat too old
 3rd party – do not offer blue water cover
 Newton Crum - looks a possible for fully comp
 Giles - looks a possible for fully comp
 Basic Boat liability – do not offer blue water cover

My thoughts are that I would like to get 3rd party cover as the fully comp prices are too steep ( I could buy another boat after 5 years buy not paying some of the quotes I have received so far!). Any suggestions on what to try next?

Thanks

John Q
Yacht Triumphant






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[ChrisE]

John,
If you have already crossed the pond have you considered joining the OCC? In this month's Flying Fish (the club's magazine) there are a couple of brokers claiming to offer advantageous rates to members.
Chris

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[Talbot]

SAGA do a blue water cover, but I did not like their policy - for my particular type of boat.

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[davidbains]

If you take the Europe/Med 3rd party it should get you to the Canaries.
Maybe then cross the pond uninsured and get a new 3rd party in the
Caribbean possibly from US insurer.
Also ?try a French firm.
David.
I don't think fully comp is worth it for an old boat.

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[Sunnyseeker]

Be carefull with the wording, we had comp insurance for 1% of value from Pantaenius, including the caribbean for a year but they wouldn't insure for just two crewing across the pond...so we were un insured for tat bit and they weren't happy that we'd sailed un insured! They think we should have found some crew, we all know two isn't a problem. Then we sailed the Carib, paying an additional premium, had extra crew on the way back and were told by them to inform them of our arrival in Europe....we did, The Azores...then sailed off to Spain, lost our prop (thats another story) and eventually arrived back in UK, and considered putting in a claim over the cost of the prop incident, which turned out to be quite expensive...They then said sorry you weren't insured! we were supposed to tell them of arrival in Spain? They dont consider The Azores as Europe it seems, even though the marina was built with EC money!
Your quote sounds expensive, but we heard they were in the process of cancelling blue water insurance policies, after speaking to the RYA legal service, The RYA may also be able to help they were aware of the changes whilst we were away.

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[john_q]

Dear all

Thanks for your replies, comments and leads. I agree that 3rd party seems to be the way to go, not fully comp due to the value and age of the boat.

Time to hit the phone again and keep trawling until I find some one who can offer something. the must be a way past the the cartel of ripping off yachtmen some where. I will post results when/if I have found someone

Thanks again John Q


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[johnc1]

John,

I would be really interested in knowing how you get on. I'm in a similar situation.
My boat is in the States until next spring & I can't get insurance here because it's 'Over there' & I can't get insurance 'Over there' because I'm not an American citizen!!!! What the hell do you do??
I'm considering getting someone in the States to insure it under their name, might be iffy though if we need to claim.

BTW I had similar quotes from Pantaneus. £2000 premium + £2000 excess PLUS it didn't cover 'Named' Hurricanes & storms in the hurricane season!!!!.
So, in essence, with the boat sat in a sheltered marina with security I would have to sustain £4000 worth of damage before I break even, in my books that one hell of a bash!!!

If anyone else has any ideas please let us know.

John C

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[hamish]

Hi

Please let us know how you get on.

This confirms my own finding at the boat show this year. Fully comp would be offered but no one would take on 3rd aparty only.


good luck

Hamish




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[pragmatist]

V interested to hear about Pantaenius. They have been v helpful so far and have a much more flexible policy re the Med and Baltic than, say GJW. However the enormous hike in premiums made us think again and after hearing this I think I shall investigate further well ahead of the renewal date. Having only a week or three to sort new insurance inculcates laziness - easier to pay up than find a better option.

We had assumed they were adult about sailing further afield but maybe not.



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[pragmatist]

Just had a phone call from Pantaenius stating that they do not exclude 2-handed across Biscay or the Atlantic - each case is judged on merit according to the boat and the experience of the crew. They also favour crews which are accustomed to the boat and each other. All good news.

The other good news is that there are to be no premium hikes this year - they did even mention some decreases - we shall hope we're one of those.

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[john_q]

Dear all

As requested, an update of where I have got to (not very far!). I have been a bit side tracked by finding holes in the hull of my steel boat - all resolved now but has lost me a months fit out time I WILL LAUNCH IN 3 WEEKS !!!. ready or not as long as the water stays where it belongs but that is another story

Still have not found anyone offering 3rd party only. Via a knowledge 3rd party who deals with a lot of insurance companies, I am told that, behind the scenes, there are only 2 or 3 underwriters offering blue water insurance so that probably explains the simular responses. I have also heard that Pantenius was losing £10 in every £1,000 underwritten. The comments about Pantaneaus are very interesting and I will follow this up and challenge then on the informatio I recieved over the phone. I can confirm that pantanius are still offering world wide 3rd party to existing customers (£150 Pa)so if anyone has this hang onto to it!!!

I have been recomended to try a company called Ferryman Underwriting Agency (+044 (0)12345 252457. They only offer fully comp but are talking about 1.5% of the value so it sounds do-able. Having spoken to them , they seemed to ask the right questions and indicated that 2 crew should not neccessarly be a problem. They did ask our ages as ,if your are 65 and want to sail into the sun, then this could be an issue. In addition to a detailed proposal form, they have asked for the following:

a) As complete itinery as possible with estimated dates (they only quote for a year at a time depending on where you want to go)

b) as compete a history as to the experiance of the crew members

I have still to contact the OCC

Hope this helps

Thanks for all the feedback

John Q

PS if anyone needs a very good welder and a NDT (Non destructive tester - ultrasonics survey) in the Essex area let me know. they have got me out of a hole - sorry about the pun

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[jax]

Just got back from the east coast of the USA. While there my 3rd party insurance expired and Pantanious informed me that they no longer covered boats in that area. Found a local insurer who gave me 3rd party ($100 for $100 000) restricted to 100 miles offshore; additional $100 for the same cover in the Bahamas. Probably not enough cover in a litigious minded area, but it was a case of "when the Devil drives" PM me for address if interested.
Jax

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[hamish]

Hi

how long has your boat been "over their". When I was asking about insurance for an atlatic crossing, stay over that summer in Trinidad, outside hurricane zone and have another winter over their and then return. Oh!! no

MAY, give me cover but would prefer boat in UK, not even in MED, !!

Is it that your boat is ashore, but within the hurricane zone that is problem?

regards

Hamish

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[johnc1]

Jax,

The marina requires $300,00 liabilty cover but any addresses/phone numbers would be most welcome, there all worth a try.

Reference whether the boat is in or out of the water, it's going to be left in at the marina berth. My thoughts are that it will take a lot more to damage the boat in the water in a big blow than ashore, a hurricane could well dislodge her in a cradle or propped.

John

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[jax]

John, Sorry for the delayed reply. The insurance Co is Island Insurance Services 4557 Kingsley Ave Orange Park Fl. 32075 Phone 904 264 3554 (do not have their email address) Don't know how well they deal with claims etc but they are used by several people in Green Cove Springs Marina $100 for 3rd party cover of $1000 000 up to 60 miles off shore (not 100 miles as I said earlier) Pm me if you need anymore info.

Jax

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[jax]

John, Sorry for the delayed reply. The insurance Co is Island Insurance Services 4557 Kingsley Ave Orange Park Fl. 32075 Phone 904 264 3554 (do not have their email address) Don't know how well they deal with claims etc but they are used by several people in Green Cove Springs Marina $100 for 3rd party cover of $1000 000 up to 60 miles off shore (not 100 miles as I said earlier) Pm me if you need anymore info.

Jax

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[john_q]

Blue water insurance Update

Dear all

I promised an update and here it is. I have managed to get Fully Comp Insurance cover for my trip from Yachtsure @ 1.85% of hull value for 2 crew only. They have the usual requirements, i.e. Sight of recent survey and having a working autopilot. (Some areas of Caribean are not covered, Cuba, Dominican republic etc and no huricane cover ) but this seems to be a reasonable cost and the only offer on the table so we are going for it.

If it is of use, Yachtsure’s contact details are:

Yachtsure Insurance
Gracechurch House
55 Gracechurch Street
London EC3V 0JP

Tel: 0207 550 3737
Fax: 0207 550 3738
e-mail : marion.penny@talbotuw.com

My contact at Yachtsure being Marion Penny

So with this in mind, we are (hopefuly weather permitting) leaving Essex on Tuesday 10th August to head south for the sun via Falmouth, Spain, Portugual Madieria and the Canaries to Barbados (for Christmas?) so any if any forum members spot us anywhere (Yacht Triumphant from Fleetwood) pop over and say hi

John & Sheila


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