tel1
New member
due to my current service in the royal fleet auxillary i belive im entiteld to fly the blue ensign. trouble is i also belive i have to fill out some kind of form in order to legally do it. any body know anything about this?
blue ensign
- Thread starter tel1
- Start date
ebbtide
N/A
It's the club, not an individual, who's entitled to wear a defaced ensign. Does that help?
Warning: whatever you sail or drive both you and the boat will have to be squeaky clean from now on!
Warning: whatever you sail or drive both you and the boat will have to be squeaky clean from now on!
Quandary
Well-known member
Why do you want to fly a blue ensign? I am genuinely interested in the answer as I have difficulty in understanding the attraction of this particular emblem.
Interestingly I saw a boat last week flying a red ensign defaced with a crown. The boat was from Royal St. George Yacht Club in Dun Laoghaire and it seems the flag goes back centuries to the original royal warrant but its survival of Irish freedom is hard to understand, though I think it may be a (upper) class thing.
Interestingly I saw a boat last week flying a red ensign defaced with a crown. The boat was from Royal St. George Yacht Club in Dun Laoghaire and it seems the flag goes back centuries to the original royal warrant but its survival of Irish freedom is hard to understand, though I think it may be a (upper) class thing.
Litotes
New member
[ QUOTE ]
It's the club, not an individual, who's entitled to wear a defaced ensign. Does that help?
Warning: whatever you sail or drive both you and the boat will have to be squeaky clean from now on!
[/ QUOTE ]
Not exactly. Certain clubs can grant warrants to individual members to wear a blue ensign. The right is granted to the person, not the boat and does not come automatically with club membership. You could join the Royal Naval or Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve sailing associations, both of which do grant warrants for the blue ensign.
And, no. You won't have to be squeaky clean. Unless, of course, you care about the opinions of the silly, the childish and the inverted snobs. But you might want to try to stick to decent standards of seamanship and behaviour. Terrible, isn't it? What a burden.
Many such people go on to express their pride in the red ensign, even though they have not, themselves, endured the Arctic convoys or other hardships whence this pride is derived. If they had a better understanding of the reasons for the blue ensign privileges granted to certain clubs they might think twice about their attitudes to the wearers of blue ensigns.
It's the club, not an individual, who's entitled to wear a defaced ensign. Does that help?
Warning: whatever you sail or drive both you and the boat will have to be squeaky clean from now on!
[/ QUOTE ]
Not exactly. Certain clubs can grant warrants to individual members to wear a blue ensign. The right is granted to the person, not the boat and does not come automatically with club membership. You could join the Royal Naval or Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve sailing associations, both of which do grant warrants for the blue ensign.
And, no. You won't have to be squeaky clean. Unless, of course, you care about the opinions of the silly, the childish and the inverted snobs. But you might want to try to stick to decent standards of seamanship and behaviour. Terrible, isn't it? What a burden.
Many such people go on to express their pride in the red ensign, even though they have not, themselves, endured the Arctic convoys or other hardships whence this pride is derived. If they had a better understanding of the reasons for the blue ensign privileges granted to certain clubs they might think twice about their attitudes to the wearers of blue ensigns.
Slow_boat
New member
What checks are ther?
What's to stop anyone who fancies one from using one?
What's to stop anyone who fancies one from using one?
tel1
New member
i wish to fly it because i can, it represents my work which i love. now im no old boy, im in my early 20s, yet i have served in the royal navy and now into my fourth year in the merchant. ive been bought up around the sea and my life is the sea therefoour i wish to fly my approriate ensign! and in answear to slow-boat, im unsure on checks, ive been flying it for a year with no problems but i heard recntly that you have to apply for it?? i just dont want to get stopped and fined, as lets face it, if the government can fine you they will!
VicS
Well-known member
See http://www.emsailing.co.uk/wb.html for an explanation of the authorisation of members of ceratin yacht clubs to wear the Blue Ensign.
I believe also that Officers of the RNR above a certain rank may also be granted a warrant by the Director of Naval Reserves.
See HERE
I believe also that Officers of the RNR above a certain rank may also be granted a warrant by the Director of Naval Reserves.
See HERE
prr
New member
I think the people who fly red ensigns that have a Cornish caravan sticker sown into the top left hand corner should stick to caravanning
tel1
New member
ive never seen this but it did make my evening!
Quandary
Well-known member
OK I can see where you are coming from; but surely if anyone who wants to can buy one and fly it on their boat it can't mean that much. I know a lot of gin palace type mobos ( You know the flash boats that drug dealers have) that pass through here seem to have them. I don't have any personal military background but as a sailor I am pleased to wear a red ensign and a burgee from my home club when away from local waters.
Most countries have one maritime flag which everyone can use and some like USA are proud simply to fly the national flag. Here in Scotland you get all sorts of variations on the saltire but the English seem to have a particular affinity for displaying differences of rank or class.
I do think I may suffer from inverted snobbery but it is definitely not jealousy.
Most countries have one maritime flag which everyone can use and some like USA are proud simply to fly the national flag. Here in Scotland you get all sorts of variations on the saltire but the English seem to have a particular affinity for displaying differences of rank or class.
I do think I may suffer from inverted snobbery but it is definitely not jealousy.
Latestarter1
New member
Being a serving officer in the RFA does not permit you to wear an undefaced Blue Ensign on your personal vessl.
Plain and simple. I would have thought the skipper would have straightened you out had you asked him.
Plain and simple. I would have thought the skipper would have straightened you out had you asked him.
tel1
New member
well i am the skipper and im no officer, just a simple engine room rateing. but as you seem so knowlegable maybe you can tell me how i am eligiable to fly the undefaced blue ensign!
calamitys38
New member
[ QUOTE ]
i wish to fly it because i can, it represents my work which i love. now im no old boy, im in my early 20s, yet i have served in the royal navy and now into my fourth year in the merchant. ive been bought up around the sea and my life is the sea therefoour i wish to fly my approriate ensign! and in answear to slow-boat, im unsure on checks, ive been flying it for a year with no problems but i heard recntly that you have to apply for it?? i just dont want to get stopped and fined, as lets face it, if the government can fine you they will!
[/ QUOTE ]
Basically, you have to apply for a warrant from your ultimate superior (i.e CinC Fleet). According to QRRN, you are entitled to fly an undefaced Blue Ensign if you are of a rank of Lt Cdr or above and have can satisfy the stipulations as laid down by QRRN.
In theory, if you have been flying it for a year and no-one has asked that is because (I suspect) not enough people nowadays either realise the difference and/or assume you have the necessary paperwork. An officer off a vessel of Her Majesties Navy is entitled to stop you and ask for your Warrant, as are Customs Officers and Harbour Masters (again - all in QRRN).
The easiest way to fly a Blue Ensign without all the nausea of actually having to be a Naval officer and/or a Reservist is to join a club that can issue you with the necssary Warrant. The following clubs can fly an undefaced Blue Ensign (but you should/must fly the clubs Burgee as well)
Royal Albert Yacht Club
Royal Anglesey Yacht Club
Royal Brighton Yacht Club, Australia
Royal Cinque Ports Yacht Club
Royal Cruising Yacht Club
Royal Dorset Yacht Club
Royal Engineer Yacht Club
Royal Geelong Yacht Club, Australia
Royal Gourock Yacht Club
Royal Highland Yacht Club
Royal Marines Sailing Club
Royal Melbourne Yacht Club, Australia
Royal Motor Yacht Club
Royal Naval Sailing Association
Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve Yacht Club
Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron Rooms, New Zealand
Royal Northern and Clyde Yacht Club
Royal Perth Yacht Club of Western Australia, Australia
Royal Port Nicholas Yacht Club, New Zealand
Royal Queensland Yacht Club, Australia
Royal Scottish Motor Yacht Club
Royal Solent Yacht Club
Royal South Australia Yacht Club, Australia
Royal Southern Yacht Club
Sussex Motor Yacht Club
Royal Sydney Yacht Squadron, Australia
Royal Temple Yacht Club
Royal Thames Yacht Club
Royal Western Yacht Club of England
Royal Western Yacht Club of Scotland
Royal Yacht Club of Tasmania, Australia
Royal Yacht Club of Victoria, Australia
Hope above helps.
Regards
C38
(Proud owner and flyer of a Blue Ensign by Warrant as I am a Reserve Officer!!)
i wish to fly it because i can, it represents my work which i love. now im no old boy, im in my early 20s, yet i have served in the royal navy and now into my fourth year in the merchant. ive been bought up around the sea and my life is the sea therefoour i wish to fly my approriate ensign! and in answear to slow-boat, im unsure on checks, ive been flying it for a year with no problems but i heard recntly that you have to apply for it?? i just dont want to get stopped and fined, as lets face it, if the government can fine you they will!
[/ QUOTE ]
Basically, you have to apply for a warrant from your ultimate superior (i.e CinC Fleet). According to QRRN, you are entitled to fly an undefaced Blue Ensign if you are of a rank of Lt Cdr or above and have can satisfy the stipulations as laid down by QRRN.
In theory, if you have been flying it for a year and no-one has asked that is because (I suspect) not enough people nowadays either realise the difference and/or assume you have the necessary paperwork. An officer off a vessel of Her Majesties Navy is entitled to stop you and ask for your Warrant, as are Customs Officers and Harbour Masters (again - all in QRRN).
The easiest way to fly a Blue Ensign without all the nausea of actually having to be a Naval officer and/or a Reservist is to join a club that can issue you with the necssary Warrant. The following clubs can fly an undefaced Blue Ensign (but you should/must fly the clubs Burgee as well)
Royal Albert Yacht Club
Royal Anglesey Yacht Club
Royal Brighton Yacht Club, Australia
Royal Cinque Ports Yacht Club
Royal Cruising Yacht Club
Royal Dorset Yacht Club
Royal Engineer Yacht Club
Royal Geelong Yacht Club, Australia
Royal Gourock Yacht Club
Royal Highland Yacht Club
Royal Marines Sailing Club
Royal Melbourne Yacht Club, Australia
Royal Motor Yacht Club
Royal Naval Sailing Association
Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve Yacht Club
Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron Rooms, New Zealand
Royal Northern and Clyde Yacht Club
Royal Perth Yacht Club of Western Australia, Australia
Royal Port Nicholas Yacht Club, New Zealand
Royal Queensland Yacht Club, Australia
Royal Scottish Motor Yacht Club
Royal Solent Yacht Club
Royal South Australia Yacht Club, Australia
Royal Southern Yacht Club
Sussex Motor Yacht Club
Royal Sydney Yacht Squadron, Australia
Royal Temple Yacht Club
Royal Thames Yacht Club
Royal Western Yacht Club of England
Royal Western Yacht Club of Scotland
Royal Yacht Club of Tasmania, Australia
Royal Yacht Club of Victoria, Australia
Hope above helps.
Regards
C38
(Proud owner and flyer of a Blue Ensign by Warrant as I am a Reserve Officer!!)
tel1
New member
cheers dude, a response that is usefull!!!! so ive been at sea for 5 years and i still cant fly it because im not an officer!! honestly, you boys get your table made and your cabin cleaned as you have strips and i dont!! anyway thanks for the advice, looks like ill be joining the royal navy sailing association!
Litotes
New member
[ QUOTE ]
the English seem to have a particular affinity for displaying differences of rank or class.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, the English have an affection for history and tradition. That is obvious whenever anyone expresses pride in their red ensign.
Why do you suppose that certain clubs were granted the privilege of granting warrants to wear the blue ensign?
The answer is usually one of three reasons.
First, the members of many of those clubs rallied in large numbers during two world wars and served with distinction in the coastal forces, of which they formed the backbone. The privilege was granted in recognition of those distinguished services. Naturally, these tend to be some of the older established clubs.
Second, the privilege was granted in recognition of distinguished services to seamanship amongst amateur sailors. The Cruising Association and the Little Ship Club are examples of clubs in this category.
Third, the privilege was granted to clubs for former navy personnel, in recognition of their service to the nation.
There is just as much proud tradition behind the wearing of the blue ensign as their is behind the red and anyone may join a "blue ensign" club and, if they wish, carry on that tradition. A former Ordinary Seaman is as welcome in RNSA as an Admiral and a plumber may join the Cruising Association just as a barrister may. They are all equal on the water. A British yacht entering a foreign port should, however, wear the national maritime ensign, which is the red.
Rank and class come into it only in the minds of those who choose to make an issue of it. Quite why it should matter so much to them beats me, but the attitudes attributed to blue ensign wearers (of which I am not one) are composed mostly of projection.
the English seem to have a particular affinity for displaying differences of rank or class.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, the English have an affection for history and tradition. That is obvious whenever anyone expresses pride in their red ensign.
Why do you suppose that certain clubs were granted the privilege of granting warrants to wear the blue ensign?
The answer is usually one of three reasons.
First, the members of many of those clubs rallied in large numbers during two world wars and served with distinction in the coastal forces, of which they formed the backbone. The privilege was granted in recognition of those distinguished services. Naturally, these tend to be some of the older established clubs.
Second, the privilege was granted in recognition of distinguished services to seamanship amongst amateur sailors. The Cruising Association and the Little Ship Club are examples of clubs in this category.
Third, the privilege was granted to clubs for former navy personnel, in recognition of their service to the nation.
There is just as much proud tradition behind the wearing of the blue ensign as their is behind the red and anyone may join a "blue ensign" club and, if they wish, carry on that tradition. A former Ordinary Seaman is as welcome in RNSA as an Admiral and a plumber may join the Cruising Association just as a barrister may. They are all equal on the water. A British yacht entering a foreign port should, however, wear the national maritime ensign, which is the red.
Rank and class come into it only in the minds of those who choose to make an issue of it. Quite why it should matter so much to them beats me, but the attitudes attributed to blue ensign wearers (of which I am not one) are composed mostly of projection.
Litotes
New member
[ QUOTE ]
well i am the skipper and im no officer, just a simple engine room rateing. but as you seem so knowlegable maybe you can tell me how i am eligiable to fly the undefaced blue ensign!
[/ QUOTE ]
Join the Royal Naval Sailing Association or the RNVR Yacht Club (either would be happy to have you as a member, I'm quite sure) and apply for a warrant. It really isn't complicated.
well i am the skipper and im no officer, just a simple engine room rateing. but as you seem so knowlegable maybe you can tell me how i am eligiable to fly the undefaced blue ensign!
[/ QUOTE ]
Join the Royal Naval Sailing Association or the RNVR Yacht Club (either would be happy to have you as a member, I'm quite sure) and apply for a warrant. It really isn't complicated.
tel1
New member
just completed online!!! all done, and thanks for everyones help, i did some research and came accross a point that if caught flying a blue without permit you are subject to a £1000 fine!!! so im glad im a little wiser now
Slow_boat
New member
I'm not really fussed what ensign I fly (wear?) I've been entitled to defaced red, defaced and undefaced blue and now just (?) the red. I do wonder what's to stop me flying (wearing?) one I'm not entitled to, though.
calamitys38
New member
[ QUOTE ]
cheers dude, a response that is usefull!!!! so ive been at sea for 5 years and i still cant fly it because im not an officer!! honestly, you boys get your table made and your cabin cleaned as you have strips and i dont!! anyway thanks for the advice, looks like ill be joining the royal navy sailing association!
[/ QUOTE ]
No worries. As for wearing stripes and having cabins cleaned - well, that's life in a blue suit I'm afraid!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Good luck with the RNSA - I believe their rates are not that expensive. You may also want to consider the RNVR Yacht club - I think they charge something silly like £25 for the year (this is because they don't have a clubhouse and therefore few if any overheads). Not sure if you actually have to be in the Reserves or not, but asking never costs that much and if you are succesful, £20 - 30 per year is really very good value!!
cheers dude, a response that is usefull!!!! so ive been at sea for 5 years and i still cant fly it because im not an officer!! honestly, you boys get your table made and your cabin cleaned as you have strips and i dont!! anyway thanks for the advice, looks like ill be joining the royal navy sailing association!
[/ QUOTE ]
No worries. As for wearing stripes and having cabins cleaned - well, that's life in a blue suit I'm afraid!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Good luck with the RNSA - I believe their rates are not that expensive. You may also want to consider the RNVR Yacht club - I think they charge something silly like £25 for the year (this is because they don't have a clubhouse and therefore few if any overheads). Not sure if you actually have to be in the Reserves or not, but asking never costs that much and if you are succesful, £20 - 30 per year is really very good value!!
tel1
New member
just signed up with RNSA, as im still a serving member in the RFA i dont have to pay a joining fee so its just the £33 a year i had to pay, like you say very reasonable! a good site to with some uesfull information!