Blue Angel (Canados 70s) Rebuild thread

[jfm]

Bart,

I'd use cold white leds (whatever over 3k Kelvin) as a feature lighting somewhere...
So, use 2700K leds everywhere and pinpoint/stress a feature/space/area using cold leds.
It will make more sense the less >3000K light sources you use
Typical use for cold whites, none - okay, in theory they are good for studying/office space, but I don't like them even on that!

obviously imho!

V

Very much each to their own, but I would use cold as opposed to warm white LEDs on the external deck "mood lighting" and name illumination etc. Makes the boat look sharper at anchor, imho

Bart, FWIW and IMHO I would not copy the old sistership Canados lighting design in your picture 6 posts above. Those lights just make a simple diffused pool of light, and there are too few of them. Are you sure you want such a utilitarian approach to lighting design? Crisp lighting needs more light fixtures, producing the right shape eg a narrowish streak of light so that you get darkness and light side by side in interesting patterns. For example, I spent ages finding LEDs that would project several parallel pencil streaks of light downwards from each step of my internal staircase (and spent >£100 on each step!): a boring pool of light would have been a missed opportunity. The New Zealand Hellas (using phillips LEDs rather than chinese rubbish) or the equivalent Foresti Suardis (medium quality chinese LEDs) are ideal for this, and are specifiied by the world's top superyacht builders. All imho of course!

 

[BartW]

Very much each to their own, but I would use cold as opposed to warm white LEDs on the external deck "mood lighting" and name illumination etc. Makes the boat look sharper at anchor, imho

Bart, FWIW and IMHO I would not copy the old sistership Canados lighting design in your picture 6 posts above. Those lights just make a simple diffused pool of light, and there are too few of them. Are you sure you want such a utilitarian approach to lighting design? Crisp lighting needs more light fixtures, producing the right shape eg a narrowish streak of light so that you get darkness and light side by side in interesting patterns. For example, I spent ages finding LEDs that would project several parallel pencil streaks of light downwards from each step of my internal staircase (and spent >£100 on each step!): a boring pool of light would have been a missed opportunity. The New Zealand Hellas (using phillips LEDs rather than chinese rubbish) or the equivalent Foresti Suardis (medium quality chinese LEDs) are ideal for this, and are specifiied by the world's top superyacht builders. All imho of course!

J, you know that I'm very much with you on this, and I understand perfectly what you are talking about.
now for these deck lights, the cabling is (was) in there
I'm here at the boat, these gunwale repairs are nearly finished, so very difficult to change the cabling.

You also know that I don't mind a slightly utilitarian look, therefor I quite like the orriginal lights, but they are not yet bought, so I will investigate your proposed options...
(and agree I don't like a pool of yellow light in this position)
you know your advice is alway's highly apreciated, many thanks again !




just arrived at the boat this morning
I'm really impressed with all the work that is going on,
much too much to explain,
will post pictures later
yes much of this is new to me, but I simply like to see these old craftsmen doing their best to deliver a nice and high quality result (4 men are +65yo)

their might be comments on their old fashioned way of working,
but who am I to discuss with them about their experience of 40y or more of boat building.

they were impressed that my drawing for the steps was so accurate
the as buyld dimensions are almost exactly the same,
and they like the modifications we are doing

 

[wakeup]

Very much each to their own, but I would use cold as opposed to warm white LEDs on the external deck "mood lighting" and name illumination etc. Makes the boat look sharper at anchor, imho

Bart, FWIW and IMHO I would not copy the old sistership Canados lighting design in your picture 6 posts above. Those lights just make a simple diffused pool of light, and there are too few of them. Are you sure you want such a utilitarian approach to lighting design? Crisp lighting needs more light fixtures, producing the right shape eg a narrowish streak of light so that you get darkness and light side by side in interesting patterns. For example, I spent ages finding LEDs that would project several parallel pencil streaks of light downwards from each step of my internal staircase (and spent >£100 on each step!): a boring pool of light would have been a missed opportunity. The New Zealand Hellas (using phillips LEDs rather than chinese rubbish) or the equivalent Foresti Suardis (medium quality chinese LEDs) are ideal for this, and are specifiied by the world's top superyacht builders. All imho of course!

Well if you want your boats to look max powered then go ahead and mix the colour temperatures. IMHO it clashes horribly and makes both colour temperatures look naff. Vituvas, you need to look up your Kelvin colour temperatures mate. Neutral is around 4600k Cool is considered 5500k upwards. SO when you all say cool I think you all mean neutral

 

[vas]

Virtuvas, you need to look up your Kelvin colour temperatures mate. Neutral is around 4600k Cool is considered 5500k upwards. SO when you all say cool I think you all mean neutral

ok doc, I'll get my colleague to give me some extra lectures on lighting over the w/e then

wakeup, I work on the basis that 2700K is what I like, so call it warm/daylight, call it whatever, all else is "bad" in my eyes so I call it "cool white"
I know it's not particurly scientific and I can get away with it with my architect students but obviously not with you.
I guess naming conventions from main light bulb manufacturers (Philips for example) are to blame to an extend...

cheers

V.

 

[vas]

Cool is considered 5500k upwards.

that's magenta mate! it's like some horrible aftermarket hids fitted on max power cars (fiestas, mk3 escort 1.1, 106 etc) that's just foul...

V

 

[wakeup]

that's magenta mate! it's like some horrible aftermarket hids fitted on max power cars (fiestas, mk3 escort 1.1, 106 etc) that's just foul...

V

EXACTLY

Don't let the Essex contingent on here talk you into to going that route ;-)

 

[Nick_H]

Well if you want your boats to look max powered then go ahead and mix the colour temperatures. IMHO it clashes horribly and makes both colour temperatures look naff. Vituvas, you need to look up your Kelvin colour temperatures mate. Neutral is around 4600k Cool is considered 5500k upwards. SO when you all say cool I think you all mean neutral

Inside the boat you have lots of warm colours for the light to bounce off, whereas on the outside you have (usually) plain white, so the same temperature bulbs will look completely different on the inside and outside anyway. In that situation its maybe better to have a complete contrast than a poor match?

 

[vas]

EXACTLY

Don't let the Essex contingent on here talk you into to going that route ;-)

don't worry, only being in essex once iirc, only for a few hours and was told not to talk to strangers
I even went through a lot of trouble sourcing 3K hids for my fiat coupe few years back, not going blue anytime soon.
TBH, I see all the photos with the underwater lights and I'm afraid even if they cost 50quid a piece and I would somehow decide on buying and fitting them, I'd be too embarassed to switch them on on the quiet anchorages of Trikeri where I'll be spending most of my time onboard. Maybe a couple of reasonably white and weak beam ones capable of lighting (A BIT not what jfm demoed!) 1m from the 80cm bathing platform would be not too obtrusive and if sufficiently drunk could possibly switch them on
nah, not for me and not for my 35yo mobo...

Would definitely swap my halogens to 2700K leds though and fit pwm dimmers on a few as well. Just have to source the right quality/cheap ones!

cheers

V.

enough of a thread drift, sorry Bart

 

[jfm]

weak beam ones capable of lighting (A BIT not what jfm demoed!) 1m from the 80cm bathing platform

I can do that because mine are dimmable (lumishore). I can also turn off the 6 lights independently via 6 separate circuit breakers inside a cupboard and I some times use 2 or 4, rather than all 6. I was just showing the max lumens in those photos, to wind Searush up

 

[wakeup]

Inside the boat you have lots of warm colours for the light to bounce off, whereas on the outside you have (usually) plain white, so the same temperature bulbs will look completely different on the inside and outside anyway. In that situation its maybe better to have a complete contrast than a poor match?

Ok, but you will no doubt get a lot of light from the interior coming through the windows and doors and mixed up with the cooler exterior light looks poor IMHO and aftermarket and not thought through.

 

[BartW]

Ok, but you will no doubt get a lot of light from the interior coming through the windows and doors and mixed up with the cooler exterior light looks poor IMHO and aftermarket and not thought through.

look at Jfm's pictures in post nr xx wakeup,
there is a bright, crispy, blue-ish, water reflection , fresh atmosphere outside, (tempered by the teac floor)
and a soft, warm, cosy, atmosphere inside,

all imho ofcause, but that's what I want to aim for,

 

[wakeup]

look at Jfm's pictures in post nr xx wakeup,
there is a bright, crispy, blue-ish, water reflection , fresh atmosphere outside, (tempered by the teac floor)
and a soft, warm, cosy, atmosphere inside,

all imho ofcause, but that's what I want to aim for,

Ok, It is just me being OCD.

 

[AndieMac]

there is a bright, crispy, blue-ish, water reflection , fresh atmosphere outside, (tempered by the teac floor)
and a soft, warm, cosy, atmosphere inside,

Are you working on the text for the new Blue Angel brochure.....sounds appealing mate!

 

[BartW]

Are you working on the text for the new Blue Angel brochure.....sounds appealing mate!

after that sentence, I wrote the following words in that post, but erased them before submitting;
" hear me talking, if I do sound silly, pls stop me"

 

[BartW]

Here a update from Rome, very exceptionally with snow,

Some interesting side seeing aswell (?)

Starting from the front,
Alfonso took off the winch to flatten the teac surface underneath, and make a new teac support plate for the winch (old one was too small) all in preparation for the recaulking

The inside dashboard, cover plate, suffered 20 seasons of med sunlight, faded the color, made the varnish dull, and some of the varnish was crackled.
so in need for a refresh

This cupboard was always’s very messy, and stuff deep in the front was difficult to reach, so asked them to modify this bottom plank in to a removable box, much more convenient for storage of pencils, measuring rod, stamps, etc… and now the manuals deep in the front, easy to reach.

Here are the new dashboard covers, new veneer and new varnish, pay attention to the wood veins of the different planks, real craftmenship.

Then a piece of artwork
These are the new / extra extensions for the saloon table, they searched all the Canados factory to find the last remaining part of maple tree roots veneer.
Despite a small color difference, (but hey this table is 20yo) The result is stunning, (to me at least) . they still have to assemble the parts.
Believe me, the surface feels soft like silk.

This extension can be folded together, and stored in the tablebase, the inside is completely covered with carpet to prevent damage during sailing (picture taken from a sister ship)

Then the drinks fridge in the saloon, scuse me for the quality of the pics, taken with my cellphone, the LED light has very bad CRI, not mentioning color temp. The pics don’t do justice to the quality of the furniture

We moved the fridge box to the right, (space available under the FB stairs) so that we only have to open one cupboard door for getting acces to the fridge.

And also now we have space available next to the box for a new Danfoss compressor,

They made a new solid wood ventilation grill, similar like the original airco grill

Here in the Util room SB side, are the two old fridge compressors on top of the picture. the one from the galley fridge is out of order sinds years ago,

Both are out now

The available space will be used for the desalinator
Here was the desalinator before, but now a nice big opening for a transom door:

On the Port side in this util room, was a work bench

This bench is removed, found some space in E/R on top of the gensets for that.
I would like to use this space above that exhaust pipe, underneath the new steps, for the washing machine / dryer,
But unfortunately just a few centimeters too low, any suggestion ?

Cont.

 

[BartW]

But now looking at the serious work,

The new steps, (temporarily planks)
Will be constructed in place from marine plywood, en then a thin layer of glassfibre, and then sanded and painted, and teac on each step.
Yes I know quite different from what we had in mind re GRP mold, but that’s the method they are used to.

Big opening for a transom door:

Looking inside to the E/R bulkhead /door

Here you can see some details from the original construction

Reinforcing the border, for fixing the telescopic door

And our future new cockpit bench,

Then I discussed with the chief that it would look nicer if the opening on the stern, SB side, acces to the passerelle,
would be made similar like port side, a thin gate turning to the inside in stead of outside…
Here is a picture of the old gate / door on SB

After a animated Italian discussion between the chief and his workers, they started promptly with the extra work, modifying the opening on SB side

Next week the workers have a few well deserved day’s off, too cold to work outside.
That’s all for now.

 

[wakeup]

Awesome woodwork and craftsmanship on the table and windscreen.

These guys are clearly proper craftsmen.

Can I see foam in between the GRP the cross section of the stern opening?

 

[Mr Googler]

Coming along really well Bart.

As you say, true craftsmen. I would have kittens with someone cutting holes in the transom but I guess not too bad when you have these top chaps on the job.

I hope they are going to clean your engine room when all's finish. Looks a little dusty

With regards your washing machine, there is normally a few cm between the outer casing and the machine internals, filled with insulation. Could you look at cutting down the external casing on the top corner which will then be up against the stair underside?

 

[vas]

coming along nicely and REALLY fast!
nice to see progress at this rate and craftsmanship to match

well done Bart!

V.

 

[Seahope]

Wow. That looks wonderful inside!

Looking forward to seeing pictures when completed.