Blue Angel (Canados 70s) Rebuild thread

[jfm]

what an eye for detail
got your remark about the position of the handrail,
thanks !

Anyway Bart, you have to shorten the handrails. It would look rubbish if they went down to the swim platform. They have to end in the middle of the second riser - see the new Canados pic in post 36 above, and sketch below

 

[MapisM]

Anyway Bart, you have to shorten the handrails. It would look rubbish if they went down to the swim platform. They have to end in the middle of the second riser - see the new Canados pic in post 36 above

Whilst I agree that it doesn't make sense to leave the handrails as low as they are now, I would rather end them level with the first step, for a simple reason: since that step overhangs from the stern surface, the handrails can "protect" the teak corners from hitting them with a leg.
Tibia is a strong bone, but not THAT strong...!
In fact, in the post 36 Canados, there isn't any "exposed" step.

I agree with all your further thoughts on the s/s plate below that step.
Actually, coming to think of it in the light of what I just said re. the handrails length, a side advantage of the s/s plate is that it could be used to support also the handrails, as per modified sketch below.
In terms of protecting exposed corners, it would be perfect.
And even if it would have a rather unusual shape, I bet that it could result even nicer than the plain straight rails.

 

[BartW]

I love this tread not only design issues and decsions are taking place it is backed up by some cool wakeboarding of a mega yacht !!

Now you can see why I love this site !!


Tom (Boatless)

thanks for the apreciation Tom Boatless,
you can guess who has got the most advice / benefit from this forum
hopefully you will be back on the water again next season ?

 

[BartW]

Whilst I agree that it doesn't make sense to leave the handrails as low as they are now, I would rather end them level with the first step, for a simple reason: since that step overhangs from the stern surface, the handrails can "protect" the teak corners from hitting them with a leg.
Tibia is a strong bone, but not THAT strong...!
In fact, in the post 36 Canados, there isn't any "exposed" step.

I agree with all your further thoughts on the s/s plate below that step.
Actually, coming to think of it in the light of what I just said re. the handrails length, a side advantage of the s/s plate is that it could be used to support also the handrails, as per modified sketch below.
In terms of protecting exposed corners, it would be perfect.
And even if it would have a rather unusual shape, I bet that it could result even nicer than the plain straight rails.

thanks MapisM for this additional idea,
functionally wise this is an improvement, but I am still making my mind up, if I like the look of this "Italian twist"
It makes me think about the design of some italian cars, some love a certain model, and some others hate it (fe Fiat Multipla)

moreover, the potential risc for hitting your leg is not that big,
because that step does not overhang the flat surface of the platform.

but there are some other issues to decide on first...

 

[BartW]

Bart you have to make a philosophical decision about the angle of the whole stair case relative to the transom curve. I think you need to align/make square to the boat's centreline, not the transom tangent/radius. Get my drift? You'll have to move the exisiting s/s handrails therefore

I think I want to make the steps in a Trapezium shape; smaller on portside.
and on conckpit side, the steps are square to the center line,
and on the outside, in line with the tangent transom shape
(get it ? )
the dimensions in the drawings are taken in the middle of the GRP steps,
so they are not the same on the extremes

this is tricky,
IF we make the steps trapezium shape,
THEN perhaps it is better to make the risers in line with the tangential transom shape, and perpendicular in stead of vertically angled,
(steps would then have parallelogram shape)
if not, each step will have more overhang on SB side.

BUT then I think it is nicer
to make rectangular steps, and the risers square to the center line and vertically angled. (as orriginal plan)
The bottom step, we can decide to make that one rectangular or trapezium,
the tangential difference left and right on the first step is only 30mil.
(step width 500mil)
the tangential difference on the 4the step is approx 60mil, but we can cope with that in that position.

remaining small concern:
the bullwark handrail is nicely in line with the transom / bullwark shape
we have to dedice if we place the "gate door" in line with this handrail,
or
in line with the steps, square to the center line ?

will make a top vieuw drawing when time is available

 

[jfm]

this is tricky,
IF we make the steps trapezium shape,
THEN perhaps it is better to make the risers in line with the tangential transom shape, and perpendicular in stead of vertically angled,
(steps would then have parallelogram shape)
if not, each step will have more overhang on SB side.

BUT then I think it is nicer
to make rectangular steps, and the risers square to the center line and vertically angled. (as orriginal plan)
The bottom step, we can decide to make that one rectangular or trapezium,
the tangential difference left and right on the first step is only 30mil.
(step width 500mil)
the tangential difference on the 4the step is approx 60mil, but we can cope with that in that position.

remaining small concern:
the bullwark handrail is nicely in line with the transom / bullwark shape
we have to dedice if we place the "gate door" in line with this handrail,
or
in line with the steps, square to the center line ?

will make a top vieuw drawing when time is available

Hmmmm. Yes, those are all detisled questions you have to answer. And you are proving that nothing is ever simple on boats (remeber how long I spent thinking about the shape of my internal stairs 18months ago? I though and thought about it 100 times over...)

I think I would make the steps rectangular and perfectly square to the boat's centre line, and the bottom step a trapezium. IE, I agree with you. That's how it is on my boat. I am leaving for airport now to go to Antibes, back tomorrow night. I will walk along the quai and look at step designs and maybe get you some photos. We have plenty of Canados, Squadrons, Sunseekers, Leopards etc on the quai

For the gate, with the current design it seems to me you cannot have it in line with the current gunwhale. If you did, there would be big ugly gap at bottom. Gate has to be set back (forward). It wont look perfect but without a Sq78 stlye door you kinda have no choice. Check google images of Sq78 with big trnasom closer vs Sq66/68/70 with small gate - you will have to have the Sq66/68/70 look, I think. Regarding the handrails, I think you probably need to make the top gunwhale rail turn in (turn forwards) I mean, along the top of the starboard 80mm block/jamb, and then have a matching rail along to of gate. Need to think about this!

 

[BartW]

I will walk along the quai and look at step designs and maybe get you some photos. We have plenty of Canados, Squadrons, Sunseekers, Leopards etc on the quai

zillions of on-line photo's I've been looking at

To Jfm and all other mates,
many thanks for a very exiting year here on this forum
I wish you all nice Christmas day's, and a happy new year !!!

 

[wakeup]

Unusual solution to this problem

Perhaps not the best way to achieve a ladder down to the platform and into the sea. Notice also the hi/lo platform. Same sort of boat and vintage (although wooden hull so perhaps older) but not a Canados. Spotted yesterday in Cannes.

The ladder is hydraulic and seemed to fold in half to make a passerelle and doubles out to reach platform below. It almost bisects the platform which is a bit pants. I think the treads must have interlocked or were moveable to create a treadable passerelle.

 

[BartW]

Here is an update on what has been done the last few months,
The flybridge cover is finished and I like it, but no pics available yet, will follow.

In October I finished the installation of a big charger / invertor, so that all 230V sockets have power permanently, and we can get rid of this mess in a corner on the floor:
(small invertor for VHF, GSM and Walky Talky chargers)

This is the new Victron Unit,
Some heavy loads (water boiler, dishwasher, washing machine and airco) are not feeded through the invertor:

In summer we had some trouble with the battery’s.
In order to have a reliable DC supply; In November I replaced 24 x 105Ah Delphi Marine Battery’s (a very good deal from supplier Barden in UK)

The week before new year started to replace all Brass items on board;

Remember these guardrails and door handles and light switches;

We had them chrome plated here at a local company

And new Bticino switches all over :

Replacing all brass spotlights is next,
got a quotatiom from BCM Illuminaziane, for the original spots, but chrome plated. Sorry no led lights for me.

We also did new oil and filters on the MAN engines after the first season (120hrs)


Then we have put new wooden floor in the galley,
this is the old dirty grey linolium floor covering:

Here is the new bleached oak floor, and again another chrome plated handrail,

We had some gorgeous day’s in Cassis around new year, more about that later in another tread.


And here is a more detailed drawing of the GRP steps we discussed about,
Including a gate door ; in line with the transom curve,

I have another drawing where the bottom step is trapezium shape, in line with the hull shape.
But prefer the above ?

 

[BartW]

Perhaps not the best way to achieve a ladder down to the platform and into the sea. Notice also the hi/lo platform. Same sort of boat and vintage (although wooden hull so perhaps older) but not a Canados. Spotted yesterday in Cannes.

The ladder is hydraulic and seemed to fold in half to make a passerelle and doubles out to reach platform below. It almost bisects the platform which is a bit pants. I think the treads must have interlocked or were moveable to create a treadable passerelle.

Thank you wakeup !
I like it when mates are wandering in a marina, thinking about my problems / plans
and charing idea's and pictures.

The boat above has a different stern section then Blue Angel, so this solution is not really appropriate.
Have seen exactly the same on a neighbour boat in Cassis last october, it was a Admiral - chantier de Lavagne,
same make as the boat on your pics I believe.
A nice old lady anyway.
ones again, thanks for posting !

 

[rafiki_]

Bart,

Well done on the upgrades so far. It is amazing the difference some small details like the chrome finish can make. Your pics really bring this out. Flooring looks great too.

Good luck with the stairs, whatever you decide to do.

 

[jfm]

Nice stuff Bart
I would make the bottom step a trapezium! But that's just personal choice

I love the chrome conversions - great stuff

Until recently, as you know, I have said i hate LED lights inside. Over christmas in Caribbean I was on a boat with new LED lights from www.quickmarinelighting.com. For the first time, these were good enough to use imho. Good enough CRI, I mean, as well as colour temperature. subsequently I checked, and it turns out they are using the top/new Philips LED. On my next boat I'm pretty sure I will be switching to LED all over now, 100%, provided I can see how they dim (on the boat I was on, there were no dimmers so i couldn't check, but Quick do offer dimmers)

 

[vas]

provided I can see how they dim (on the boat I was on, there were no dimmers so i couldn't check, but Quick do offer dimmers)

J,

I do have a few of the latest philips leds at home (ok in gu10 format and 220V, 2.7K)
They are good (at least imho) but still dimming with proper electronic dimmers is a bit naff. They do dim up to say 30-40% then they more or less switch off. OK, that may not be a big deal, but dimming DOESNT make their light softer (as in warmer and anyway proper as halogens are...)
They just are clinically dimmed, no flare, no quality when dimmed

Still would do it rather than having to load my small craft with more batteries (saw Bart has 24 of them!!! and I only have 6...) or run the engines/genny often.

V.

 

[jfm]

Thanks Virtuvas. Yes dimming just swicthes them on/off at a certain Hz, using switching transistors, so doesn't alter the colour

I'm going to change a few on my boat for the Quick product just as an experiment. But i do feel we are approaching a point where interior LEDs are close enough to halogen that they can be used. In which case, hurrah!

 

[BartW]

But i do feel we are approaching a point where interior LEDs are close enough to halogen that they can be used.

mmmmm I'm really sceptic about that,
I'm sure that technically it can be done, but I'm afraid we 're not yet there,
I won't change completely to LED lights unless I'm sure I can recreate this kind of atmosphere:

but I will put my prepayment to BCM on hold,
and have a look at Quick LED lights in Dusseldorf,
and perhaps even try a few of these lights
thanks for the link!

 

[vas]

But i do feel we are approaching a point where interior LEDs are close enough to halogen that they can be used. In which case, hurrah!

hope so, and hope that's going to be possible without having to spend 30euro on the lamp and another 30 for the driver circuit, that'll be too big to fit in the casing. BTW, the GU10 philips dimmable 8W jobbies I have in my office right now (or something like that anyway - 4X2 LEDS) are almost 2inches LONGER than the normal ones to fit the circuit in the ribbed gray casing. Not an easy job fitting them in concealed luminaires and not looking good at minimal luminaires that was counting on the actual bulb mirror/shinny design...

I guess mimicking halogens would force companies use RGB LEDs and drive them with a circuit tuned to alter colour temp vs pwm freq. Ugly from an engineering pov but should work and would probably not be feasible or economical to run.

V.

 

[jfm]

I won't change completely to LED lights unless I'm sure I can recreate this kind of atmosphere:

Me too. I'm as sceptical as you remember! But I think we might now be getting there. These Quick jobs were excellent. I lived on the boat with them for virtually a week, and had them for interior saloon and exterior deck lighting, so i had lots of chance to try them and consider how good they were.

 

[AndieMac]

She looks stunning Bart...well done mate!

 

[wakeup]

Thank you wakeup !
I like it when mates are wandering in a marina, thinking about my problems / plans
and charing idea's and pictures.

The boat above has a different stern section then Blue Angel, so this solution is not really appropriate.
Have seen exactly the same on a neighbour boat in Cassis last october, it was a Admiral - chantier de Lavagne,
same make as the boat on your pics I believe.
A nice old lady anyway.
ones again, thanks for posting !

My pleasure, I spend the time I'm not on boats loafing around boat yards.

As I say, it isn't the solution for BA but interesting to see another and different form the mainstream solution.

I look forward to seeing more photos of the progress with keen interest. Please keep the photos and reports coming, it helps me cope with the winter blues. Cheers Wakeup

 

[wakeup]

Me too. I'm as sceptical as you remember! But I think we might now be getting there. These Quick jobs were excellent. I lived on the boat with them for virtually a week, and had them for interior saloon and exterior deck lighting, so i had lots of chance to try them and consider how good they were.

The specs look good JFM, as I said earlier, the Philips light engine based warm whites are probably the best out there. Colour temperature warming with dimming is coming but not yet at a price that is sensible.