Black round shapes......

[LORDNELSON]

Anchored at Osbourne Bay this weekend, about 30% of those anchored in the middle of the day had hoisted the anchoring shape. It was noticeble that most of those from SunSail did not, can one assume that their instructors do not believe in shapes or that these were SunSail boats sailing without instructors?

If I pick up a laid mooring in a reasonably exposed position should I hoist a round black shape? For example the outer trot at Yarmouth

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[ThomasHome]

The instructor who took me for my day skipper did not see the point of shapes and ensigns, we anchor regularly and use our black ball but few people seem to. If your at a known anchorage with several other boats then it must be fairly obvious to passing craft, but if anchored on your own then its best to use it.

I am amazed how many yachts I see in the dark anchored on their own with no anchor light on, and a little confused when one boat all by itself had a green acchor light on parked at Itchenor.

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[ianwright]

"The instructor who took me for my day skipper did not see the point of shapes and ensigns, "

Didn't he? Then may I suggest another instuctor?

IanW.

<hr width=100% size=1>Vertue 203, Patience

 

[Alex_Blackwood]

International Regulations for Preventing Collision at Sea.
Rules 1 and 30 apply!
I would think that an exposed mooring is treated as at anchor (If there is doubt about risk of collision then risk of collision must be considered to exist).

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[Reap]

As an instructor myself I agree, perhaps another instructor.

Most sunsail instructors are 'Cruising Instructors' this means that they are not qualified as an RYA Yachtmaster Instructor and have not been assesed by the RYA.
To be a cruising instructor you only need to be 'assesed' by the school you work for.
To be an RYA Yachtmaster Instructor you have to do a four day assesment with an RYA Instructor examiner. Well actually three days and then the fourth day with a moderator. This is quite a tough assesment of your sailing and teaching abilities.

In my opinion the cruising instructor scheme allows the likes of sunsail to claim that they have 'qualified instructors' whilst using cheap young labour.
Perhaps you should check if your instructor is in fact an RYA Yachtmaster Instructor. Big difference



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[jimi]

Strictly speaking a mooring is not an anchorage, and I would not show a dayshape, but at night I would probably show an anchor light in an exposed position

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[Reap]

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

International Regulations for Preventing Collision at Sea.
Rules 1 and 30 apply!
I would think that an exposed mooring is treated as at anchor (If there is doubt about risk of collision then risk of collision must be considered to exist).

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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

If I pick up a laid mooring in a reasonably exposed position should I hoist a round black shape? For example the outer trot at Yarmouth

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I disagree but am open to correction
You should not hoist an anchor ball as you are not at anchor and would be giving out the wrong signals. It would not make you any more visible and would not help in any court case to come out of a collision with your vessel. In fact it might even make your case worse with any insurance company as you were showing incorrect shapes and therefore (say) causing confusion.


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[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

I always try to especially if my anchoring could be confusing to other vessels, I get a real gripe on when the yachts waiting for tide anchor around Pwllheli entrance. From a mile off and then approaching I will be slowing down, slowing down only to realise they are at anchor and not just queueing to enter.

When I anchor off the beach or in an obvious anchorage I never hoist the ball.

At night I will always show my anchor light, but in Dale in Milford Haven last week I also hung a flourescent tube off the boom as it is very dark, and easy in my opinion to miss the mast heads and get real close before realising a yacht is at anchor, like I did, scarey it was too.

Why do people anchor at entrances, why not move 500yds off to the side, then not obstructing us who have tiny drafts who can slide into port at all states of tide. Does it cause a problem having to motor that extra distance once the tide has risen above the bar?

<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk/Honda_00.html>Honda Formula 4-Stroke racing</A>

 

[TRH]

I must agree in my opinion the Sunsail Skippers, both of them that almost sent me, my crew, and my boat to the bottom this weekend by not understanding what a round black ball means, need to read the International Regulations for preventing Collision at sea and then apply them. In my opinion to show off in a big boat you do not own is very bad seamanship, there is no place for brinkmanship over safety at sea.

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[maxxi]

Use of an anchor ball whilst at anchor is an obligation - not an option. Insurance companies also employ legal staff whose role it is to find reasons NOT no pay a claim, and failure to exhibit the correct signals shows a lack of due diligence.
As for taking a lead from Sunsail, I'd rather trust Screaming Lord Such to run the war in Iraq.

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[dulcibella]

Being dead, Screaming Lord Sutch would certainly have made less of a pig's ear of it than George W and Blair. Reverting to anchor shapes/lights, I'm not keen on the assumption that an anchor light should be at the masthead. It's more in line with the ColRegs and also much easier to avoid if it is a couple of metres off the deck in the forward triangle. In this position you can use a small paraffin lamp, so saving precious watts.

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[dickh]

In the River Orwell, if you are staying on board overnight on a mooring, the harbour master recommends an anchor light - this was after a couple of incidents a few years ago when a ship dragged a moored boat all the way to Harwich and another was sunk on her mooring!

<hr width=100% size=1>dickh
I'd rather be sailing... /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[Reap]

Yes sometimes at night whilst on a mooring using an anchor light can be useful.
However there is no point (as was the original point of the thread) in hoisting a black ball whilst on a mooring, it does not make you any more visible and would be of no legal help, in fact may be legally detrimantal.
Sorry to repeat myself.

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[LORDNELSON]

A. G. MacDonnel once wrote that if we put the War Office in charge of circuses and circus owners in charge of military operations we would have excellent circuses and would win most of our wars. I agree about keeping the anchor light in the fore triangle and not too high. There is a temptation however when arriving tired after a long passage, at night, to switch on the mast head light and head for one's bunk.

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[LORDNELSON]

Re: Thanks for

all your intereting comments. I have often pondered about putting up a light or shape at a mooring (as opposed to being at anchor) and cannot recollect if the col regs define the difference between a "mooring" and being "at anchor"

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[Alex_Blackwood]

Re: Thanks for

Ref my previous, I have taken advice from some of deepsea (Big Ship) friends.
A vessel on a fixed mooring does not show anchor shapes or lights. However a vessel over 100mtrs? (I think) should show all upperdeck lighting at night.

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