Bit of a pickle - bad battery

sailorbenji

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The battery is 4 years old, but I suspect it's been abused. I believe it failed, as I wrote in an earlier post, because possibly the boatyard left the engine breaker on for an extended period of time whilst we have been on the hard. With the breaker on, there is an unavoidable small draw on the battery from the engine ECU etc.

This wouldn't have been an issue if rectified in reasonable time (weeks even), but over the winter it's quite possible the battery maintainer kept the battery topped despite the vampire drain...at some point though, the maintainer would have pulled the 24V bank below its cut-off threshold, thus stopped charging the 12V battery and the vampire drain continued for who knows how long....maybe until 2-3V even.

At some point, it's been corrected, shore-power plugged in prior to relaunch, and the 12V maintainer has brought the battery back up to reasonable voltage (albeit very very slowly at 1.5A max, thus not exposing the heat issue).

As said, we have the ability to jump the engine at any point, we have the ability to split the 24V bank (now learned), what I didn't have was knowledge of what would happen running an alternator with no load......mea culpa.

Comparing cars on the road to boats isn't exactly a comparison. Most cars are used daily and as we all know, it's the times a boat is not in use for extended periods that issues tend to happen, especially if shore power is intermittent, or absent.
I would argue plenty of people with weekend cars, summer cars, or multiple toy cars, have issues with their batteries if, for instance, they just leave the car in storage, or the trickle charge set up they have fails for whatever reason.

That's simply what's happened, I believe.

I can't exactly swap our entire boat over to 12V, not that it would be a good idea anyway, in case we have another (once in 20 years) 12V internal battery short. It's been a 24V / 12V system from new and thus practically every piece of equipment on board is 24V.
 

Refueler

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I appreciate that all appears to be 'solved' ... but I tend to think that a 'health check' of batterys and systems could be advised - basically get a marine electrician on board to give it a check.

There may be a fault that can come back to bite you again ... its all well and good us on the forum giving ideas etc. but we can only comment based on info given. I just feel a bit uneasy about the event and apparently simple 'cause' ... it could well be .. but checking would be my route now.
 

sailorbenji

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I appreciate that all appears to be 'solved' ... but I tend to think that a 'health check' of batterys and systems could be advised - basically get a marine electrician on board to give it a check.

There may be a fault that can come back to bite you again ... its all well and good us on the forum giving ideas etc. but we can only comment based on info given. I just feel a bit uneasy about the event and apparently simple 'cause' ... it could well be .. but checking would be my route now.
The boat is now in Silvers, and the battery voltage (outside of the boat now) dropped below 12V, so it's pretty clear the battery suffered an internal short.

The only other 2 components in this system are :

1. The alternator - which has now proven itself over 6 hours of motoring connected to another battery, outputting voltage and regulating current as it should. I'm very confident it's fine.
2. The 24V-12V battery maintainer, I'll check output from that later but I'm pretty sure it did its job properly, cutting off to protect the 24V bank from over-discharge overextended shore-lay up, then doing its best to resurrect a sick 12v battery later on.
 

rogerthebodger

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If the charger the yard had connected is a non-auto turnoff it will raise the voltage to such an extent that the aid will boil off and heat the plated up so they distort and damage the battery.

I have several classic cars with auto turnoff battery on then with no issue, but I do have an non-auto turnoff and it will damage the battery as described.

Its all about the battery charger regulator
 

PaulRainbow

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The battery is 4 years old, but I suspect it's been abused. I believe it failed, as I wrote in an earlier post, because possibly the boatyard left the engine breaker on for an extended period of time whilst we have been on the hard. With the breaker on, there is an unavoidable small draw on the battery from the engine ECU etc.

This wouldn't have been an issue if rectified in reasonable time (weeks even), but over the winter it's quite possible the battery maintainer kept the battery topped despite the vampire drain...at some point though, the maintainer would have pulled the 24V bank below its cut-off threshold, thus stopped charging the 12V battery and the vampire drain continued for who knows how long....maybe until 2-3V even.

At some point, it's been corrected, shore-power plugged in prior to relaunch, and the 12V maintainer has brought the battery back up to reasonable voltage (albeit very very slowly at 1.5A max, thus not exposing the heat issue).

As said, we have the ability to jump the engine at any point, we have the ability to split the 24V bank (now learned), what I didn't have was knowledge of what would happen running an alternator with no load......mea culpa.

Comparing cars on the road to boats isn't exactly a comparison. Most cars are used daily and as we all know, it's the times a boat is not in use for extended periods that issues tend to happen, especially if shore power is intermittent, or absent.
I would argue plenty of people with weekend cars, summer cars, or multiple toy cars, have issues with their batteries if, for instance, they just leave the car in storage, or the trickle charge set up they have fails for whatever reason.

That's simply what's happened, I believe.

I can't exactly swap our entire boat over to 12V, not that it would be a good idea anyway, in case we have another (once in 20 years) 12V internal battery short. It's been a 24V / 12V system from new and thus practically every piece of equipment on board is 24V.
Be careful what you read on here, some is complete drivel.
 

Refueler

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If the charger the yard had connected is a non-auto turnoff it will raise the voltage to such an extent that the aid will boil off and heat the plated up so they distort and damage the battery.

I have several classic cars with auto turnoff battery on then with no issue, but I do have an non-auto turnoff and it will damage the battery as described.

Its all about the battery charger regulator

Very few chargers over the counter today are 'dumb chargers' - a fact I lament .... when fitting charge controllers such as splitting charge from a single charger to two batterys - a smart (auto turn off) charger is the type you definitely do not want. Why ? Because the smart charger - most will not work with smart controllers. The charger fails to power the controller.

Also - most dumb chargers are NOT constant amp ... they are constant voltage ... you can watch their amps rates drop as the battery charge level comes up .. with all the dumb chargers I have and seen - reducing to a bare trickle charge at top end. Of course not a good idea to keep them on permanently .. But charge controllers are cheap enough to connect between dumb charger and battery(s) so they switch on / off charge as battery needs.

Of course we can pay out for Marine Smart Charging systems ...
 

rogerthebodger

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Very few chargers over the counter today are 'dumb chargers' - a fact I lament .... when fitting charge controllers such as splitting charge from a single charger to two batterys - a smart (auto turn off) charger is the type you definitely do not want. Why ? Because the smart charger - most will not work with smart controllers. The charger fails to power the controller.

Also - most dumb chargers are NOT constant amp ... they are constant voltage ... you can watch their amps rates drop as the battery charge level comes up .. with all the dumb chargers I have and seen - reducing to a bare trickle charge at top end. Of course not a good idea to keep them on permanently .. But charge controllers are cheap enough to connect between dumb charger and battery(s) so they switch on / off charge as battery needs.

Of course we can pay out for Marine Smart Charging systems ...


I have several smart chargers and an old non smart charger that i still keep as the smart chargers do need a voltage from the battery to detect the battery so will not charge a totally flat battery.

I use my non smart charger to get some charge/voltage into the dead battery the comment the smart charger to it.

These are not special marina chargers but available to anyone

This is one of my smart chargers

https://hawkins.co.za/product/smart-6/

Lots of other available

This is a charger controller that I have some of also

Hawkins Smart Controller. Convert any charger into a Smart Charger |
 

Refueler

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I have several smart chargers and an old non smart charger that i still keep as the smart chargers do need a voltage from the battery to detect the battery so will not charge a totally flat battery.

I use my non smart charger to get some charge/voltage into the dead battery the comment the smart charger to it.

These are not special marina chargers but available to anyone

This is one of my smart chargers

Smart 6 universal 12 v3.2 a battery charger |

Lots of other available

This is a charger controller that I have some of also

Hawkins Smart Controller. Convert any charger into a Smart Charger |

That's a reasonable smart charger - but as you realise - it will restart charge when battery charge level drops .... most "smart" chargers will not do that as they are really Auto Off chargers ... useless for our 'hobby'.

I have a couple of Lidl 'smart chargers' on my 38ft ... which although Lidl and not expensive - actually do maintenance charge cycle keeping battery topped up .... but will not auto restart full charge rate ..
If I run fridge as example - the Lidl charger will not full rate charge to compensate unless I manually select charge ... it stays on the low maintenance rate.

My 25ft has a dumb 6A max charger that feeds through a KEMO solid state splitter automatically charging which battery needs it. That boat has no fridge or other gear to power when moored etc - so is more than enough. I used to use the small 1.5A maintenance chargers - but they got repurposed to my garden gear.

The latest smart charger I bought has a standard max rate of 20A (variable by user) but with a booster switch that sends 70A !! I was highly skeptical of that - but when I tested it on a reasonably but not full battery - the meter shot to 50A when switched ... so its possible on a low charged battery - it might hit near 70A. Its now on the boat as a boost charger if ever needed.
 

B27

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There are also some dubious semi-smart chargers out there which can overcharge batteries if left connected long term.
And chargers with adjustable smart settings which can be set to the wrong thing.
I have an Aldi or Lidl charger which is good for what it does, but I won't leave it connected to anything for weeks on end like a proper 'maintenance charger'. To be fair, this is partly because the batteries I want to 'maintain' include small ones on motorbikes etc.
 

Refueler

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This is not the case with all smart chargers.

Currently I have 6 smart charger of various makes and all default out if battery is too low ... 1 or 2 refuse at anything below 9v ... the others at around the 3 - 4v mark ..
Over here I cannot find any that accept a near dead battery.

I either use a battery of high enough voltage to parallel near dead battery to get smart charger to charge ... or use a dumb charger to bring it up .. (I can use any of my LiPo Programmables which have Lead Acid mode as well if needed to bring battery up ... ).
 
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