bilge or drop keel 1 2 all

pheonix

pheonix

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i am shortly hoping to be in the market to upgrade from my current boat a 22' pandora twin keel "my cruising area has lots of drying harbours into which i enjoy sailing".
my dilema ?.
i wish to upgrade to a boat of between 28' and 33' have considdered used moody bilge keels or possibly a new delphia 29 drop keel. do i go for the bilge keel option "sturdy" or do i opt for fin like performance i have no intention of racing but would like performance. but i do want to be able to take the ground in a safe and stable manner.
i would like to hear the views of those who have the experience of both, or the drop keel option
thanks in advance /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
I don't think the difference in performance between drop & twin keels is a significant factor.

What I think is more important is the state of your gelcoat after grounding your boat twice a day for several years if you buy a drop keeler.

Just my opinion.
 
If you go the bilge keel route, another to consider is the UK Hunter range. I'm on my third and have been very happy with all of them. Very competent sailing performance, able to take the ground and very well built. We can anchor where others don't even consider.

Great at lay up time, just hoist out of the water and put it down. No messing with cradles or props.

Huge range of price depending on model, age etc.

No connection other than a happy customer.
 
i live round your way, i had a hunter horizon which was excellent, but have just changed to a parker 27 (lift keel) for even better performance, you wont go wrong with either.
 
having owned both lifting keel and bilgekeel boats it all depends on the type of drying out you do.

If drying out in deep soft mud a bilge keel boat will sometimes dry out at an angle if one keel finds harder mud than the other.Also if drying out on the side of a river bank a twin keel will often lean towards the middle of the river.

If drying out in harbours with flattish firm sand then the twin keeler will be better.Also the twin keels keep your hull up off any obstructions such as small rocks ,anchors etc .

A lifting keel also involves a bit more maintenance .
 
I bought a jeanneau 32.2 in september last year. Very pleased with her, fast and very steady (twin rudders help here I think) after having had quite a bit of experience sailing bav charters which were prone to broach if pushed.

A couple of points on swing keel into a box as the jeanneau: 1. In soft mud, the pressure under the hull as the boat settles can allegedly push mud up into the box and even into the boat, I've not experienced this, but they do recommend avoiding soft mud. 2 I took ground next to harbour wall at padstow and nearly fell over! Needed to tie mast as the gound was not even. The box is not that wide, say 400mm at a guess, so on uneven ground I'm guessing we might not be so stable and would have to avoid. I would have thought that bilge keel would be more stable in these circumstances. 3. Maintenance; I lifted out recently and there are parts you just cant get at without major work, unlike bilge keel.

Having said all that, I really like the flexibility and performance, so for me, I would either go for lifting keel or fin. In the Bristol channel tides are big, and I'm hoping the flexibility of lifting keel will deliver.
 
[ QUOTE ]
1. In soft mud, the pressure under the hull as the boat settles can allegedly push mud up into the box and even into the boat, I've not experienced this, but they do recommend avoiding soft mud.

[/ QUOTE ] Nothing alleged about this - it happens quite regualrly. Also if there is shingle in the mud, stones can be forced into the gap, and jam the works completely.

It is usually recommended that the plate is left 25 - 50mm below its fully retracted postion. The plate moves down as the boat lifts, and clears any mud that has been forced in. This works well for mechanically lifted plates, but may not work for hydraulics which lock the plate wherever it is.
 
There are more modern boats that have adapted the Bilge Keel idea to be more Twin Keel ... that is higher aspect ratio keels giving a better grip and form ... such that many are now sailing near or as good as their Fin counterparts.

Lift keels often have a boss or stub keel that normally can take ground OK - but any incline or unevenness of bottom can tip the boat ... There are of course others that still have a substantial bulb under the hull ...

Me - I'm a dyed in the wool Bilge Keel person ... who also appreciates Lift keel - I used to sail a Snapdragom Lift keel as well as many others - out here I have a twin lifting plate job as well as my BK ... but will stay BK for foreseeable future.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Me - I'm a dyed in the wool Bilge Keel person ... who also appreciates Lift keel - I used to sail a Snapdragom Lift keel as well as many others - out here I have a twin lifting plate job as well as my BK ... but will stay BK for foreseeable future.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too!..........what colour's your wool? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Us Brizzle Channel sailors just got to 'ave 'em see! everywhere dries out. Unless you'm be one o' they posh sailors what can afford they Marina places. Then of course y'um be restricted as to where you can go.

Just my 'umble opinion, but I reckons that as Marina berths get harder to find and even more expensive (read bloody silly prices)......the bilge keeler will start to become much more popular. At least for cruising folk. Drop / swing keelers are fine, and one of me favourites is the good old Eboat, but you do have to be mindful of where you is setting them down. Same with encapsulated bilge keelers really, cos a hard lump of Mother Earth can pluck up ya encapsulation big time! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
all your oppinions seem to compound my own innitial thoughts about the compromise of lift keels.
so i guess i will probably stick with twin keels as some say and my own experiences confirm the loss of performance is minimal and not to high a price to pay for peace of mind when drying out.
THANKS TO ALL WHO HAVE RESPONDED FOR YOUR COMMENTS
 
I don't know the likely prices of either the Moody or the Delphinia but here are some 30 -32' twin keel boats that really sail well IMHO;

Hunter Channel 31 / 323
Sadler 290
Moody 31
Moody S31
Westerly Fulmar
Westerly Tempest

You shouldn't be let down by any of the above, all are sturdy but still perform well. I always maintain a well sailed twin will go as well as, or better, than a moderately sailed fin.....witness the happy grin on my son when our Channel 31 overtakes (to leward) fin keel Bavaria 36's!!! Also if your really bothered you can always get sexier sails and a folding prop - that should negate any difference for ordinary sailing. I personally wouldn't go for the lifting keel only because typically (but not always) the displacement is less and I think having a moderate displacement is good for cruising.

Good luck in your search!
 
A late response but... sold my Ben 305 Fin last year due to limit deep water harbours in N Wales / Irish sea and was dead set on lift keel. However, the more I researched Twin Ks the more convinced I was that this was the way forward. I got the distinct impression that any lift keel that presented a flatish bottom was susceptible to damage drying out. Those with a stub keel negated the advantages of a lift keel. Even a Jenneau dealer persuaded me not to buy a Sun 2500 to keep on a drying mooring! I went for a Hunter 272 which is noticably lacking in performance (although 5' shorter than my Benny in any case) but this is more than compensated for in shorter cruising distances between harbours, a far more flexible approach to cruising and I can keep it 5 minutes from my house at 1/4 of the berthing costs.
 
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