Biggest size for single handing?

[purplerobbie]

What do people think is the optimum size for single handing?
As a liveaboard cruising yacht? A friend said 40ft but I think that might be a big big for getting in and out of marina's.
What are the panels thoughts?

 

[PetiteFleur]

I've got a 33' and it's fine but I do have it set up for when I'm sailing on my own. Autohelm a must as well as a central cleat for coming alongside, easy reefing and engine start in cockpit.

 

[alant]

What do people think is the optimum size for single handing?
As a liveaboard cruising yacht? A friend said 40ft but I think that might be a big big for getting in and out of marina's.
What are the panels thoughts?

My mate single hands an Ocean 60.

 

[purplerobbie]

My mate single hands an Ocean 60.

Does he take in in and out of marina's singlehanded?

 

[Pasarell]

I have a 43ft boat and mostly singlehand in the Med. Marinas are a challenge depending on wind conditions but generally they send someone to help with stern lines and pass the lazy line. Bowthruster and remote controls make things much easier.
Last week I met a chap who must be in his 70's singlehanding a Nauticat 42. Genoa and in mast furling are electric and all winches hydraulic so he was quite relaxed about it.
As always with single handing on any size of boat planning ahead makes things much easier!

 

[lpdsn]

I single hand my 43 footer. I've no great desire to sail single handed so I only do it when the boat needs to be moved and I can't conveniently get crew. I took it into a marina last week on my own but I chose fairly benign conditions.

So it is possible. The big secret is not to attempt anything that would need crew. So berthing where lines need to be got on quickly to avoid been blown into another boat or similar is to be avoided.

 

[alant]

Does he take in in and out of marina's singlehanded?

Yes, but rarely an inside berth, cos fingers are too small, however had an inside in Portugal.

 

[maby]

The maximum size can be quite flexible provided the boat is suitably configured and the skipper is very familiar with it. A lot will depend on how well it handles at low speeds - long keelers are notoriously difficult to manoeuvre and having multiple crew on board will not improve that - a friend of ours with a particularly pig headed long keeler could not park it in a small space with half a dozen others on board. Deep keelers tend to be a lot better behaved and are likely to be easier to single-hand.

Ours is a deep keeled 43 footer and handles very well both forward and in reverse. I can single-hand it under most conditions and can park it in a space that is just a couple of feet larger all round. If it handles well in reverse, it is often easier to park it in a relatively small berth than a large open space - I just have to make sure it is well fendered up all round, then reverse slowly into the gap - tucked in between a finger pontoon and another boat, it's not going anywhere and I can simply let it slip backwards till the stern (also well fendered) is pressed up against the main pontoon, leave it in tickover astern and step off to tie up the lines.

Have a range of line types available - short and long - and choose the lines that fit the situation. There are tricks that you can play with a very long line - as in more than twice the length of the boat - which can help a lot with single and short-handed sailing. If the boat handles well in reverse, you can set up a bow or midships line that you can deploy onto a cleat from the helm as you reverse past it and then control from the cockpit to keep you suitably close to the finger pontoon.

The primary problem with large boats is likely to be the height of the deck off the pontoon - a boat with a lot of freeboard is going to be difficult to get off. Modern walk-through transoms can help a lot there.

 

[GHA]

What do people think is the optimum size for single handing?
As a liveaboard cruising yacht? A friend said 40ft but I think that might be a big big for getting in and out of marina's.
What are the panels thoughts?

The question has an awful lot more to it than handling the boat..

How much space do you need? Thinking of having lots of visitors? (They never show up anyway )

How much budget - under 12m can make a big difference if you're thinking of spending time in marinas;
type of boat - heavier older design is easier solo then a flighty lightweight thing;

I live on a steel 33'er which for me is just about right - enough space and foredeck big enough to get the dinghy onto, solid offshore and tracking so stable the windvane works great even in light airs.

 

[TQA]

Well I am 69 and single hand my 44 ft cutter a fair bit. But I almost never go into marinas preferring to anchor out where I am free of looky lous rapping halyards and mosquitoes.

I don't think I would want to go any bigger without getting power winches.

 

[Tranona]

The issue is not size per se, but figuring out what you need to do to handle the boat in the conditions you expect to be using it in. some boats adapt very easily to single handing because of the basic underlying characteristics and then the way the gear is installed and operates.

most modern boats are fundamentally easy to handle because they have the gear - winches, clutches, furling sails etc that make sail handling relatively easy. Cockpit layout is key - can everything be reached easily from the wheel? (invariably a wheel rather than a tiller). does she go backwards easily - saildrives and big spade rudders help here. Is the rig mainsail or jib orientated? (Small jibs are easier to handle as are big mainsails, particularly furling ones).

Mooring is perhaps the biggest concern and a bow thruster is a positive, but more important is a well practiced routine of attaching the boat to the land or pontoon from on board. Easy with a home berth but needs more thought when getting into a strange berth.

Finally, recognise that you have limitations because of now back up crew and don't attempt to do things that need a crew.

Choice of boat and size depends on so many factors, but if you approach it logically you should be able to find a boat that suits.

Just for information i downsized from a 37 to a 33 mainly because of the difficulty of getting in and out of my home berth. At sea it was not a problem, although the new boat has a small 106% jib and bigger main which is much better. Out sailing today on my own and dare I say it, completely under control - because I went through the process described above when specifying the new boat, so have confidence in it.

 

[GHA]

What are the panels thoughts?

No one can read past the first line

As a liveaboard cruising yacht?

 

[Foolish Muse]

I'm laughing because most of the discussion so far has been about motoring in an out of marinas. What we should be considering are the issues that face someone who is actually singlehanded SAILING a boat.

So first, you have to decide if the boat is actually for Sailing or for motoring. They are completely different things with different requirements. What you absolutely don't want to do is buy a boat based on your ability to motor in and out of marinas, but then find that you are out of your league any time that you are sailing the wind gets up to 15. Every day I go out in 15 knots of wind and watch boats, with a crew, motoring because they are too frightened to raise the sails. Do you want to be in this situation?

Once you get above 40' in length, then you are working with sizes and forces that are exponentially larger. For example, what happens if your genoa flops over the lifelines into the ocean in a 20 knot wind. Will you be able, by hand, to drag it back on board? What if you broach with your spinnaker. Can you get it back down into the cockpit? Can you even raise and reef the mainsail by yourself in a breeze? What happens WHEN (not IF but WHEN) your engine fails. Will you be able to sail up and stop at a dock?

Yes, if everything is perfect then you can singlehand any size of boat. But when things go crooked, then you have to be able to manage it by yourself, in the worst weather conditions and with a lee shore just minutes away.

So I would suggest that before all other factors, you consider the sailing aspects of your boat. I can tell you from long experience that if you plan to actually sail the boat, and if you are moderately adventurous, then you probably want to stick in the 35' range. Yes, you can go higher, but the forces increase rather quickly and your ability to play will become limited.

 

[Tranona]

So I would suggest that before all other factors, you consider the sailing aspects of your boat. I can tell you from long experience that if you plan to actually sail the boat, and if you are moderately adventurous, then you probably want to stick in the 35' range. Yes, you can go higher, but the forces increase rather quickly and your ability to play will become limited.

That is an overly pessimistic view. Sailing the boat in open water is the "easiest" part IF you recognise the forces involved and set your boat up with the equipment to deal with it. Plenty of examples of single and husband/wife crews handling boats up to 50' without any problems.

However, for most the big problem IS getting in and out of marinas. So if your style of sailing involves this on a regular basis you have to configure your boat to deal with it and learn the techniques that make it possible.

This is well travelled territory as I explained in my post just above yours. It is just a different set of skills from operating a fully crewed boat. Of course it means there are limitations compared with a crewed yacht, just the same as getting on in years tends to limit what you can do.

The key thing is to concentrate on maximising what you CAN do rather than dwelling on what you can't or find difficult. The thing about modern boats which makes them so suitable for single handing is that they are designed for a market that values easy handling - mostly retired people who want to enjoy their later years rather than being challenged as they might have enjoyed when younger.

I own two boats - one a traditional 1960's wooden 26' and the other a new 33'. The latter is a doddle to handle compared with the former.

 

[ctva]

I'm laughing because most of the discussion so far has been about motoring in an out of marinas. What we should be considering are the issues that face someone who is actually singlehanded SAILING a boat.

So first, you have to decide if the boat is actually for Sailing or for motoring. They are completely different things with different requirements. What you absolutely don't want to do is buy a boat based on your ability to motor in and out of marinas, but then find that you are out of your league any time that you are sailing the wind gets up to 15. Every day I go out in 15 knots of wind and watch boats, with a crew, motoring because they are too frightened to raise the sails. Do you want to be in this situation?

Once you get above 40' in length, then you are working with sizes and forces that are exponentially larger. For example, what happens if your genoa flops over the lifelines into the ocean in a 20 knot wind. Will you be able, by hand, to drag it back on board? What if you broach with your spinnaker. Can you get it back down into the cockpit? Can you even raise and reef the mainsail by yourself in a breeze? What happens WHEN (not IF but WHEN) your engine fails. Will you be able to sail up and stop at a dock?

Yes, if everything is perfect then you can singlehand any size of boat. But when things go crooked, then you have to be able to manage it by yourself, in the worst weather conditions and with a lee shore just minutes away.

So I would suggest that before all other factors, you consider the sailing aspects of your boat. I can tell you from long experience that if you plan to actually sail the boat, and if you are moderately adventurous, then you probably want to stick in the 35' range. Yes, you can go higher, but the forces increase rather quickly and your ability to play will become limited.

Only real sensible answer so far.

Bigger, more gadgets, hydraulics, electrics, thrusters and god knows what other automatic aids are all great, but when it all goes pear shaped and the gizmos fail, can you still handle it? I've seen more than a few singles or couple as with far too big a boat for situations.

My criteria for our current 34' boat was that I had to be able to handle it one up when the wife was with the kids below.

 

[jordanbasset]

The question has an awful lot more to it than handling the boat..

How much space do you need? Thinking of having lots of visitors? (They never show up anyway )
How much budget - under 12m can make a big difference if you're thinking of spending time in marinas;

Agree

 

[Tomahawk]

Muse,
I presume you consider it is impossible to sail non stop round the world in a 60 foot screaming machine that carries more canvas than half a dozen Contessa 32's all by itself? All of which without any powered assistqnce such as electric winches? And doubly impossible if you are female?

 

[lw395]

Muse,
I presume you consider it is impossible to sail non stop round the world in a 60 foot screaming machine that carries more canvas than half a dozen Contessa 32's all by itself? All of which without any powered assistqnce such as electric winches? And doubly impossible if you are female?

Anything is possible if you are young, driven and have a big budget.
But those kinds of people rarely ask for advice on here....

 

[ianj99]

What do people think is the optimum size for single handing?
As a liveaboard cruising yacht? A friend said 40ft but I think that might be a big big for getting in and out of marina's.
What are the panels thoughts?

I have been a liveaboard on my 36' steel ketch for a year and am always single handed. Here's my take:

Choose a heavy long keeler (I favour a Nauticat but they're outside my budget) which will sit in the water rather than on it. This will make it much more comfortable when it gets choppy in the marina, especially in a beam wind, when lighter yachts are bouncing about like corks on a mill pond and are dangerous to board, never mind uncomfortable to stay aboard during a gale.

Steel also has the advantage of reducing air borne noise so when all hell breaks out during a gale (wind in the rigging, on yours and on your neighbours, unsecured halyards, wind generators, etc) down below, its quiet enough to sleep in peace. On the other hand, water borne noises such as boat engines are heard more clearly. A point brought home when berthed in Tarbert marina, which, being a commercial port with a fishing fleet and fish farm tenders working 24hrs 6 days, meant a more disturbed sleep. (apparently their throttles have only two settings - idle and full!)

Long keelers are, however, notoriously unpredictable when going astern so backing into a berth is usually not possible, though the weight and deep keel mean nothing happens too quickly and the keel will not stall as quickly as it might on a fin or bilge keeler.

For a single occupant, you don't need to go bigger than about 33' (I viewed a couple of Moody 33s and they were more spacious than my Bruce Roberts).

For sailing a sloop means one less mast & sail to consider and maintain but should not be a deal breaker.

I would suggest that you checkout the marina you are planning on staying in first. Investigate how easy or not getting into a berth is, how sheltered it will be in a gale, whether you'll be pointing into the prevailing wind. Visit on a windy day and you can get an idea of the noise from nearby vessels - some owners are inconsiderate when it comes to securing halyards etc. Speak to the marina operator as well, as some may have a ban on liveaboards, although many will not be bothered if you are discreet and do not clutter the pontoon with overflow possessions and dress the boat with washing, pot plants etc!

So what are your priorites?
Sailing: a light, fast, agile, soap dish bottomed fin keel yacht that is really uncomfortable, even sick making, in a gale and where a gust of wind is enough to cause loss of control when berthing.

Liveaboard: a heavy, stable, slow, forgiving yacht/motorsailer that shrugs off gales and is not so affected by adverse gusts.

I'm sure there are yachts that are somewhere between....
Ian

 

[Tranona]

Only real sensible answer so far.

Bigger, more gadgets, hydraulics, electrics, thrusters and god knows what other automatic aids are all great, but when it all goes pear shaped and the gizmos fail, can you still handle it? I've seen more than a few singles or couple as with far too big a boat for situations.

My criteria for our current 34' boat was that I had to be able to handle it one up when the wife was with the kids below.

Not sure about it being a "sensible" answer - it is just a point of view that you seem to agree with. On the other hand you will find there are many people who completely disagree with you and are quite happy to sail larger boats either on their own or as a couple.

You are right. All the new aids that come with modern boats (and many fitted to older boats) are great. That is the whole point as they make sailing easier and allow those who want to have bigger boats, or particularly those like me who are older, to continue sailing. You just have to recognise, as I explained earlier, what the limitations are and keep within them. The trend towards bigger boats has been going on for 30 years or more, because of developments that make them easier to handle, so is it surprising that people take advantage of them?

I too have seen people have difficulty with their boats, many of them with crews. Perhaps you should spend time in the Med where there are many singlehanded and couples cruising quite happily in bigger boats, and also observe those with bigger crews getting into trouble, particularly with mooring, just through straight incompetence.