Beta Marine Diesel engine cut out?

[JollyRodgers]

No videos for this issue I'm afraid

Decided to take out the boat for the first time without anyone else other than the girlfriend (new sailors!), which was fun and also a little scary.

Beta marine diesel was fired up with the engine water seacock open (as usual), fuel in the tank etc. We left the lock and headed for a poodle down the harbour, with a plan to pull up next to a pontoon for some lunch after some sailing and practicing what we had learnt.

After about 25 minutes or so with the engine on, it just cuts out. Now I'm wondering what the hell has happened - is there enough fuel in the tanks? Did I accidently turn it off somehow? Where am I going to go? (tidal waters + fin keel) Who am I going to call to tow me on the radio? (presumably the marina)

Worth noting that there was water coming out of the stern all the time, as it should.

I hit the kill switch, twisted and pulled the key out. Counted to 3 and fired it up again - and it was fine.

I ran the throttle much lower than before hand, spun the boat back and headed to the safety of my berth at the marina. The engine ran perfectly, as if nothing ever happened for the next 30-35 minutes or so. All dials were reading correctly too.

The engine was fully serviced last month. It was brand new as of 2008 and has had a full service carried out each year since. I wouldve done the engine service myself, but I didnt know what I was looking at originally and was pushed for time to get it back into the water. I plan on doing it next year though.

My girlfriend said that she remembered someone who we went out with for some instructing telling us not to use too much throttle too soon after starting the engine because it can make them cut out (not sure the reasoning behind this?). She reckoned that I was going too fast too quickly after starting it and that's what did it, but only saying that because of what the person told us the week before. I was giving it perhaps 75-80% throttle because the boat infront of me was going fast and I had about 7-8 boats behind me and didn't want to hold everyone up - it was super busy for overtaking and a narrow channel too.

We got to do lots of stuff before the engine died on us though, so the day out wasn't a complete disaster. Still enjoying learning about it all and fixing things as I go along. The learning curve is pretty steep, but sometimes I wonder if I took a bit too much on too soon :-(

Any ideas?

Alex

 

[Bru]

Post service airlock in the fuel line would be my best guess

 

[Malish]

Check that the fuel filter is snugly on, most likely place for an air leak but I doubt that is the cause of your cutout.

After that I would suspect a partial blockage. You don't quite say it in your post but did you have the revs higher before the cutout than afterwards (ok, yes you do)? If yes then likely some crud partially blocking the filter or (hopefully not) a gauze filter at the exit of your fuel tank. Change the fuel filter and inspect carefully the one you are taking off for crud or slime, if there is some then report back to here for further guidance..

 

[RichardS]

As above, most likely to be airlock which has now cleared or possibly partial or complete blockage of the fuel tank breather.

If it happens again loosen the fuel filler and if air hisses in and the engine starts then it's the breather.

Richard

 

[JollyRodgers]

Check that the fuel filter is snugly on, most likely place for an air leak but I doubt that is the cause of your cutout.

After that I would suspect a partial blockage. You don't quite say it in your post but did you have the revs higher before the cutout than afterwards (ok, yes you do)? If yes then likely some crud partially blocking the filter or (hopefully not) a gauze filter at the exit of your fuel tank. Change the fuel filter and inspect carefully the one you are taking off for crud or slime, if there is some then report back to here for further guidance..

Yeah, before the cut out I believe I was around 75-80% full throttle and afterwards I was probably around 25-40%. Partly because I wanted to take it easy incase it cut out again and partly because there was a ton of traffic building up trying to get back into the marina.

If it was my car engine that I know well, then I would just turn it on again and carry on as usual thinking it was slightly strange but not read into it too much. However, it's a bit more reassuring in a car when your engine goes because you can wait by the side of the road and youre not going to turn your car upside down, or sink it, or have a crash haha.

I have an ever so slight leak under my engine I noticed. Presumably it's fuel, as it's a light red/orangey colour. Only perhaps a teaspoon or so after a day out on the water, but when it mixes with condensation water in there it looks a little worse than it really is. Not sure if this would be linked to the problem?

I've run the engine perhaps 4-5 hours since the engine was serviced, so I would have thought that if it was a airlock from the service - that it would have happened earlier? I maybe wrong though.

As above, most likely to be airlock which has now cleared or possibly partial or complete blockage of the fuel tank breather.

If it happens again loosen the fuel filler and if air hisses in and the engine starts then it's the breather.

Richard

I'm purely guessing here, but if it was a complete blockage of the system, wouldn't I have struggled to get the engine started again - let alone for 30-45minutes of perfect use?

Will keep an eye on it for the future and looosen the fuel filler to see if it's that.

The engine is a Beta Marine 28hp - http://www.drbmarine.co.uk/beta-sea-28-hp.html by the way.

Thank you everyone for the help.

 

[Kwik Decision]

If you have a small leak of fuel from the engine when it is not running (and that is what it sounds like, presuming you use red diesel) then there is a good chance that when running, air can be pulled into the fuel system at the leak point. At low revs, when the flow of fuel is low, it could well be that not enough air is drawn in to cause problems, but when you gave it more beans, more air is pulled in, causing it to stop.

I'd recommend finding the leak, and fixing it as a first course of action, although this is far easier said than done!

 

[Pye_End]

Suspect the fuel filter was changed during service and was not completely bled. There is a bleeding point and a lift pump which are well worth becoming familiar with - a dob of coloured paint on the bleed point might be worth it for future quick reminder. They do seem to self bleed quite easily though in exactly the circumstances you describe.

http://www.betamarinenw.com/Engines/Resources/Manual - BD1005, BV13#D8ECC.pdf page 5

 

[alahol2]

I have an ever so slight leak under my engine I noticed. Presumably it's fuel, as it's a light red/orangey colour. Only perhaps a teaspoon or so after a day out on the water, but when it mixes with condensation water in there it looks a little worse than it really is. Not sure if this would be linked to the problem?

That may well be a bit of coolant from the overflow pipe which leads off from the 'radiator cap' on top of the heat exchanger. I occasionally get a few drips of 'rusty' water in the tray under the engine.

 

[Len Ingalls]

Check fuel tank vent for possible critters that may have nested over winter.

 

[JollyRodgers]

If you have a small leak of fuel from the engine when it is not running (and that is what it sounds like, presuming you use red diesel) then there is a good chance that when running, air can be pulled into the fuel system at the leak point. At low revs, when the flow of fuel is low, it could well be that not enough air is drawn in to cause problems, but when you gave it more beans, more air is pulled in, causing it to stop.

I'd recommend finding the leak, and fixing it as a first course of action, although this is far easier said than done!

Presumably red diesel too. I haven't filled up the diesel yet, it's still from the previous owner. Half a tank left still. That's interesting. I'll have to have a look.

I know where the leak is coming from. I shouldve taken a picture of it actually. I'm not sure what it was, but i've tried highlighting the area that it was coming out from in green on the below picture. It was a pipe with a plastic sleeve around it, which attached back into the engine and had a nut that you could tighten it up with. If I take off the sleeve, it would all be kind of black and feel like there was fuel on it. Can't find that area described on the manual. I know this isnt the same engine, but it looks similar;

Suspect the fuel filter was changed during service and was not completely bled. There is a bleeding point and a lift pump which are well worth becoming familiar with - a dob of coloured paint on the bleed point might be worth it for future quick reminder. They do seem to self bleed quite easily though in exactly the circumstances you describe.

http://www.betamarinenw.com/Engines/Resources/Manual - BD1005, BV13#D8ECC.pdf page 5

Thanks. I saw the engineer bleed the fuel, but perhaps it wasn't done entirely or something.

That may well be a bit of coolant from the overflow pipe which leads off from the 'radiator cap' on top of the heat exchanger. I occasionally get a few drips of 'rusty' water in the tray under the engine.

The heat exchanger is the seacock that allows in sea water to cool down the engine, right? If you're looking at the engine, I have in the cupboard underneath the sink the engine seacock and on the left of the engine under the chair at the nav desk, I have the calorifer/hot water tank.

Do you actually have a tray under your engine? If so that is a great idea and I am going to steal it. It's a pain in the butt having to sponge out/bilge pump out any leak under the engine after everytime i turn it on. It will also allow me to see better what is making my engine bay (and behind near the prop) moist. I've fixed the seals at the bath tub locker, so ZERO rain or hosewater will be getting in now.

Many thanks.

 

[RobinBirch]

"The learning curve is pretty steep, but sometimes I wonder if I took a bit too much on too soon :-( "

Alex - don't lose heart.....this sort of stuff is quite normal for boating. One step forward, half a step back but you will get there eventually and it is very satisfying once you get on the water and things work as you would expect them too.

 

[PhillM]

I had similar after I first serviced myself. In the marina as it happens and still tied up.

I had checked the oil and not put the dip stick back in properly. Popped it back in and it's been fine ever since.

Re learning curves, that's boating. There is always something to learn. Once you learn that, everything else is just an usual occurrence that keeps one on ones toes

 

[GrahamM376]

I would be tempted to run the engine up hard on load for some time while tied up in the berth to see if the problem repeats. A partly blocked filter could well cause this fault, it happened to us last year when the very small filter in our electric fuel pump needed changing.

 

[JollyRodgers]

This is what was done on the service btw - atleast what it says on the invoice;
Turn off fuel, change fuel pre filter.
Bleed fuel system.
Change impeller and plate gasket.
Change zinc anode.
Top up heat exchanger.
Run and test operation.
Re-check fluid levels.

"The learning curve is pretty steep, but sometimes I wonder if I took a bit too much on too soon :-( "

Alex - don't lose heart.....this sort of stuff is quite normal for boating. One step forward, half a step back but you will get there eventually and it is very satisfying once you get on the water and things work as you would expect them too.

Thanks for that. Definitely finding that to be the case. On my 'To Do' list, I am crossing lots off but then finding out other stuff that would need doing as I get to know the boat better. On the plus side, whenever I come to sell it, the new owner will have almost nothing to do and it will be a hell of a lot prettier on the inside and outside than when I bought it. I havent spent too much money at all so far on things that I cant remove and transfer onto a new boat. I'm finding that a lot of the work with boats is pretty straight forward and very cheap if you do it yourself rather than pay someone to do it - rewarding too.

I think it's also good because if something goes wrong when I am out at sea, then I know I can fix it without having to call someone to do it.

Just need to perfect my actual sailing and navigation now. I think the only way to do this is to just put the hours in and read lots. Once I get around to joining Chichester Yacht Club, I will try and wing some trips out with other people on their boats too. I think a combination of learning how other people do things vs just 1 instructor will help break any bad habits that I pick up. I also think by going out on other boats I will be able to get a better understanding of what things do and how they handle.

I had similar after I first serviced myself. In the marina as it happens and still tied up.

I had checked the oil and not put the dip stick back in properly. Popped it back in and it's been fine ever since.

Re learning curves, that's boating. There is always something to learn. Once you learn that, everything else is just an usual occurrence that keeps one on ones toes

Lucky you had the comfor ton being tied up in the berth whilst it happened. Mine felt like your engine going whilst on the M25 in the overtaking lane haha.

Funny you should mention that about the oil dipstick, I checked the dipstick before I set off and perhaps didnt put it back in all the way. Why would that make a difference even if I left it out on the side though? Because there would be no suction, or would air get into it?

Bit like with flying planes or gliders I guess. You always get goosebumps and a bit of adrenaline when you go up. If you don't then that usually when mistakes happen or you end up forgetting things.

I would be tempted to run the engine up hard on load for some time while tied up in the berth to see if the problem repeats. A partly blocked filter could well cause this fault, it happened to us last year when the very small filter in our electric fuel pump needed changing.

Good idea. How long do you think, 5-10 mins? 20? How much throttle should I give it too, like 30-40% or full?

 

[Pye_End]

Good idea. How long do you think, 5-10 mins? 20? How much throttle should I give it too, like 30-40% or full?

Run it in gear. 15min+ at around 1800 to 2000 rpm should be fine. I ran mine like this for an hour when new, and it cut out a couple of times, but has never missed a beat since.

 

[GrahamM376]

Good idea. How long do you think, 5-10 mins? 20? How much throttle should I give it too, like 30-40% or full?

Try to duplicate your revs when you had the engine failure, run in gear at lowish revs for a few minutes to warm up then increase power to maybe 80% for 10 - 15 mins or so then full power for a shorter period. This should indicate if you are drawing air or have a restriction in filters or pipework but it won't of course stir up the tank contents and muck floating around in there could cause the problem. Suggest you double up lines first

 

[dovekie]

The suggestions so far are probably more likely than mine: but we had a similar experience with a newly installed Beta (35). Beta were very helpful (have you called them?) and suggested fuel starvation, cured by an inline (12 volt) fuel pump. No problems since.