Beta Marine 30 engine not passing enough seawater through the Raw water cooling

[ritchyp]

Don't altogether discount the fact that the pressure washer just, may have, pushed a lump of mud up into the inlet. Can you disconnect the inlet hose and open the seacock to check the flow?

The lad that jet washed the intake grill on the bottom of the hull said that may well have happened so our first job will be just that.

I need to scrounge a welding rod somewhere. I do have a 12volt compressed for pumping up tyres etc. But I don't think that will have enough pressure...

 

[Poecheng]

The lad that jet washed the intake grill on the bottom of the hull said that may well have happened so our first job will be just that.

I need to scrounge a welding rod somewhere. I do have a 12volt compressed for pumping up tyres etc. But I don't think that will have enough pressure...

Avon pump or compressed air horn will do the job generally

 

[LittleSister]

I haven't read through the whole thread (yet) but from the beginning thought that you saying 'we cleared the exterior grille with a jet washer' didn't necessarily mean it was clear.

Before faffing about with welding rods etc. just take the hose off the intake through hull and put it in a bucket of water. If that solves the the problem then there is a grille or seacock blockage to address. (Have to say it sounds unlikely it would be the result of a grounding - because if the mud is soft enough to pushed or sucked into the system it is usually plenty soft enough to be cleared p.d.q. by the engine raw water pump. It is possible the jet washer could blast barnacles or other detritus into a blockage, but I think you reported your problem starting before that jet wash blasting was done.

Perhaps better still, remove the inlet hose to the raw water pump and temporarily stick a new bit of tubing from a bucket of water direct to the raw water pump intake. That will eliminate any problem with the internal strainer affecting it - i.e. if it works OK like that the problem is the external grille, the internal strainer or the pipework

 

[VicS]

The lad that jet washed the intake grill on the bottom of the hull said that may well have happened so our first job will be just that.

I need to scrounge a welding rod somewhere. I do have a 12volt compressed for pumping up tyres etc. But I don't think that will have enough pressure...

Wire coat hanger ?????

.

 

[LittleSister]

Wire coat hanger ?????

Coat hanger wire, gaffer tape, and a large-sized persuader - the ultimate comprehensive all-purpose repair kit. No boat should be without them.

 

[ritchyp]

Wire coat hanger ?????

.

I believe I have one on the boat in my cabin locker.

Incidentally, The beeping alarm that made me shut the engine off after traveling only a third of a mile. That beeping alarm comes on when I start the engine for the first time. I learnt to just give the engine a small amount of throttle very briefly in neutral and then put it back into tickover and the beeping goes away. This seems normal to me as if it is fail safe and testing that the alarm actually works.

We only removed and cleaned the heat exchanger nest and did a great job of it by using an anti scaling agent and a wire coat hanger (which was put in the rubbish afterwards!)
I could see clearly through every tube in the nest. It was thoroughly rinsed through with fresh water as the descaler is corrosive. The alternator is in the way when you try to remove the heat exchanger end cap facing towards the front so the tensioner bolt was removed and the drive belt had to be taken off so I could swing the alternator over to the access the 3 Allen bolts to remove the end cap so we could push the nest out and clean it.

My friend put the wire back on the the tensioner bolt when we put the drive belt back in and tensioned it correctly.
Can anybody tell me what physically caused the alarm to come on? It kept beeping until I stopped the engine.
Now after immediately after the grounding in the mud bank, when we got back to the marina after motoring for 30 minutes, the engine was so hot that you could have fried an egg on it and it must have boiled the coolant as there was half a litre of very brown water in the engine tray (this has a fibreglass upstand and it doesn't drain into the bilge)

I was unaware until we had tied up and I went below as I was at the helm the whole time. I wouldn't have noticed if the temperature warning light was on as the starter and tacho are very low down on the far port side if the cockpit but no alarm beeping ocurred then and as I said the engine was alarmingly hot!

Last weekend the alarm came on as I have previously said and I looked down to see if the temperature warning light was on but it was not.

I would like to know what that alarm was triggered by. Could it be low pressure or insufficient flow on the seawater circuit?

Could it have been the Alternator not charging ?

Or too higher temperature? But the temperature warning light wasn't on.....

Can anybody figure what made the alarm start beeping and make me shut down the engine. We drifted back to the marina at 3 knots SOG. Spring tide and the tide was coming in. I have never heard it do that apart from when the engine is first started cold and I always start it on tickover and it always fires up.

 

[XDC]

Wire coat hanger ?????

.

.

 

[Supertramp]

I believe I have one on the boat in my cabin locker.

Incidentally, The beeping alarm that made me shut the engine off after traveling only a third of a mile. That beeping alarm comes on when I start the engine for the first time. I learnt to just give the engine a small amount of throttle very briefly in neutral and then put it back into tickover and the beeping goes away. This seems normal to me as if it is fail safe and testing that the alarm actually works.

We only removed and cleaned the heat exchanger nest and did a great job of it by using an anti scaling agent and a wire coat hanger (which was put in the rubbish afterwards!)
I could see clearly through every tube in the nest. It was thoroughly rinsed through with fresh water as the descaler is corrosive. The alternator is in the way when you try to remove the heat exchanger end cap facing towards the front so the tensioner bolt was removed and the drive belt had to be taken off so I could swing the alternator over to the access the 3 Allen bolts to remove the end cap so we could push the nest out and clean it.

My friend put the wire back on the the tensioner bolt when we put the drive belt back in and tensioned it correctly.
Can anybody tell me what physically caused the alarm to come on? It kept beeping until I stopped the engine.
Now after immediately after the grounding in the mud bank, when we got back to the marina after motoring for 30 minutes, the engine was so hot that you could have fried an egg on it and it must have boiled the coolant as there was half a litre of very brown water in the engine tray (this has a fibreglass upstand and it doesn't drain into the bilge)

I was unaware until we had tied up and I went below as I was at the helm the whole time. I wouldn't have noticed if the temperature warning light was on as the starter and tacho are very low down on the far port side if the cockpit but no alarm beeping ocurred then and as I said the engine was alarmingly hot!

Last weekend the alarm came on as I have previously said and I looked down to see if the temperature warning light was on but it was not.

I would like to know what that alarm was triggered by. Could it be low pressure or insufficient flow on the seawater circuit?

Could it have been the Alternator not charging ?

Or too higher temperature? But the temperature warning light wasn't on.....

Can anybody figure what made the alarm start beeping and make me shut down the engine. We drifted back to the marina at 3 knots SOG. Spring tide and the tide was coming in. I have never heard it do that apart from when the engine is first started cold and I always start it on tickover and it always fires up.

Certain the belt is not slipping? It drives alternator and water pump. Low alternator speed causing the alarm (usually with a warning light).

 

[Tranona]

Certain the belt is not slipping? It drives alternator and water pump. Low alternator speed causing the alarm (usually with a warning light).

The seawater pump is gear driven see photo in post#29. the problem seems tob poor seawater flow. However the freshwater pump is driven by the alternator belt so that is worth checking, although the belt is easily adjusted by hand so not difficult to get right if it has been undone and retightened.

 

[Tranona]

delete duplication

 

[Tranona]

I believe I have one on the boat in my cabin locker.

Incidentally, The beeping alarm that made me shut the engine off after traveling only a third of a mile. That beeping alarm comes on when I start the engine for the first time. I learnt to just give the engine a small amount of throttle very briefly in neutral and then put it back into tickover and the beeping goes away. This seems normal to me as if it is fail safe and testing that the alarm actually works.

We only removed and cleaned the heat exchanger nest and did a great job of it by using an anti scaling agent and a wire coat hanger (which was put in the rubbish afterwards!)
I could see clearly through every tube in the nest. It was thoroughly rinsed through with fresh water as the descaler is corrosive. The alternator is in the way when you try to remove the heat exchanger end cap facing towards the front so the tensioner bolt was removed and the drive belt had to be taken off so I could swing the alternator over to the access the 3 Allen bolts to remove the end cap so we could push the nest out and clean it.

My friend put the wire back on the the tensioner bolt when we put the drive belt back in and tensioned it correctly.
Can anybody tell me what physically caused the alarm to come on? It kept beeping until I stopped the engine.
Now after immediately after the grounding in the mud bank, when we got back to the marina after motoring for 30 minutes, the engine was so hot that you could have fried an egg on it and it must have boiled the coolant as there was half a litre of very brown water in the engine tray (this has a fibreglass upstand and it doesn't drain into the bilge)

I was unaware until we had tied up and I went below as I was at the helm the whole time. I wouldn't have noticed if the temperature warning light was on as the starter and tacho are very low down on the far port side if the cockpit but no alarm beeping ocurred then and as I said the engine was alarmingly hot!

Last weekend the alarm came on as I have previously said and I looked down to see if the temperature warning light was on but it was not.

I would like to know what that alarm was triggered by. Could it be low pressure or insufficient flow on the seawater circuit?

Could it have been the Alternator not charging ?

Or too higher temperature? But the temperature warning light wasn't on.....

Can anybody figure what made the alarm start beeping and make me shut down the engine. We drifted back to the marina at 3 knots SOG. Spring tide and the tide was coming in. I have never heard it do that apart from when the engine is first started cold and I always start it on tickover and it always fires up.

Read the manual. The buzzer comes on when when you turn the key to power the panel up (if you have a push button panel when you press the top heat button). when the engine starts the buzzer and the red warning light on the far left stays on until you rev the engine and the alternator starts charging. they both stay off if the alternator is charging . the only light that stays on is the green power light. The other 2 red warning lights are for high water temperature and low oil pressure. They are linked electrically to sender units in the engine. If either comes on the buzzer also sounds as a warning. Look at which light is illuminated and that tells you where the "problem" is.

That answers your last question. when the alarm went off the light would have told you why. does not tell you what is causing the overheat - it is just responding to the engine cooling water temperature being over the preset limit.

 

[ritchyp]

Read the manual. The buzzer comes on when when you turn the key to power the panel up (if you have a push button panel when you press the top heat button). when the engine starts the buzzer and the red warning light on the far left stays on until you rev the engine and the alternator starts charging. they both stay off if the alternator is charging . the only light that stays on is the green power light. The other 2 red warning lights are for high water temperature and low oil pressure. They are linked electrically to sender units in the engine. If either comes on the buzzer also sounds as a warning. Look at which light is illuminated and that tells you where the "problem" is.

That answers your last question. when the alarm went off the light would have told you why. does not tell you what is causing the overheat - it is just responding to the engine cooling water temperature being over the preset limit.

Thanks but one of the reasons I asked the question is that when the buzzer alarm came on, I looked at the row of lights and I didn't see any alight.
Next time I start the engine after going through the entire cooling system and fitting a new impellor and thermostat. Is check that green light comes on.
The box is down very low on the port cockpit wall. When the engine is warm, I can stop or start the engine with my big toe.

Obviously, if I don't see a green light then there is a fault with wiring, which is why I didn't see any red warning lights when I looked down there last weekend.

 

[ianc1200]

Re cleaning out the stacks - in my case the oil cooler but more usually the HE's, I was advised not to use wire coat hangers as they could damage the stacks, but soak over night in white wine vinegar, then use thin wire brushes - you can get different thickness sets very cheaply off Amazon.

 

[Supertramp]

Thanks but one of the reasons I asked the question is that when the buzzer alarm came on, I looked at the row of lights and I didn't see any alight.
Next time I start the engine after going through the entire cooling system and fitting a new impellor and thermostat. Is check that green light comes on.
The box is down very low on the port cockpit wall. When the engine is warm, I can stop or start the engine with my big toe.

Obviously, if I don't see a green light then there is a fault with wiring, which is why I didn't see any red warning lights when I looked down there last weekend.

Check when you turn on the ignition before starting the engine that the red lights (oil pressure and battery) are on, along with the green. If the red lights go out and the buzzer continues to sound there is a problem, and if the engine is cold it's not temperature. The temperature light should come on along with the buzzer. I have gauges with settable warning limits which can sound their own buzzer but unlikely to be your isuue with a cockpit system. The red temperature light could be blown?

All your symptoms point to low charge at idle and I would check what happens at start up carefully, especially if you fast idle when the alternator should be charging.

I assume you have a manual.

OM 221 20031 HE REV34 0523

 

[ritchyp]

Check when you turn on the ignition before starting the engine that the red lights (oil pressure and battery) are on, along with the green. If the red lights go out and the buzzer continues to sound there is a problem, and if the engine is cold it's not temperature. The temperature light should come on along with the buzzer. I have gauges with settable warning limits which can sound their own buzzer but unlikely to be your isuue with a cockpit system. The red temperature light could be blown?

All your symptoms point to low charge at idle and I would check what happens at start up carefully, especially if you fast idle when the alternator should be charging.

I assume you have a manual.

OM 221 20031 HE REV34 0523

Yes I've got the manual and it's got the K number and the commissioning date in 2015.
It's a 1991 Feeling 1090 & originally had a Volvo engine which was replaced with the Beta 30 in 2015.

I bought it in February and the previous owner briefly showed me how to start the engine and where the sea water seacock was etc. And I never had a problem until all the old Stowe instruments started to fail and ran into the mudbank. I have replaced all the Instruments with new Garmin and have been trying to get the engine cooling back to normal but after a whole day of working on it last Saturday, cleaning out the heat exchanger and the inlet cap at the back was badly caked with calcium as the metal pipe fitting was only the size of a pea until we removed the calcium.
We were shocked when the alarm went off when we went out to calibrate all the Instruments and has to shut off the engine and and let the current take the boat back to the marina.
Incidentally, I obviously had to use the engine to get back in to my spot as it's in between two yachts on a long linear pontoon.

 

[Alex_Blackwood]

Yes I've got the manual and it's got the K number and the commissioning date in 2015.
It's a 1991 Feeling 1090 & originally had a Volvo engine which was replaced with the Beta 30 in 2015.

I bought it in February and the previous owner briefly showed me how to start the engine and where the sea water seacock was etc. And I never had a problem until all the old Stowe instruments started to fail and ran into the mudbank. I have replaced all the Instruments with new Garmin and have been trying to get the engine cooling back to normal but after a whole day of working on it last Saturday, cleaning out the heat exchanger and the inlet cap at the back was badly caked with calcium as the metal pipe fitting was only the size of a pea until we removed the calcium.
We were shocked when the alarm went off when we went out to calibrate all the Instruments and has to shut off the engine and and let the current take the boat back to the marina.
Incidentally, I obviously had to use the engine to get back in to my spot as it's in between two yachts on a long linear pontoon.

The calcium build up won't be anything do with it as that was there previously when all was (We assume) working normally. Unlikely that any meaningful "Crud" would get past the strainer when you grounded, if the strainer is working properly. Leaves the inlet, No?
I don't wish to be unkind but reading through this thread, could I suggest that perhaps you may need professional help?

 

[Supertramp]

OK. Assuming the buzzer only sounds when the engine is properly hot and that the cooling water volume is not less than the Beta specification, then it has to be something covered in this thread. I see the possible link to the mud bank incident but that could be coincidence or some effect from full throttle running. These engines are simple and well made and you seem to have checked most things. Monitoring the temperature with an engine thermometer might shed some light on whether the problem happens at all throttle positions - test run in gear on the pontoon.

 

[ritchyp]

The calcium build up won't be anything do with it as that was there previously when all was (We assume) working normally. Unlikely that any meaningful "Crud" would get past the strainer when you grounded, if the strainer is working properly. Leaves the inlet, No?
I don't wish to be unkind but reading through this thread, could I suggest that perhaps you may need professional help?

Strainer is ok and checked regularly.
I have two guys coming down for the weekend and they both worked in marine engineering in Cyprus. One of them is fully qualified so I'm good thanks

 

[VicS]

Strainer is ok and checked regularly.
I have two guys coming down for the weekend and they both worked in marine engineering in Cyprus. One of them is fully qualified so I'm good thanks

Let us know if they fix the problem and what was causing it.

.

 

[ritchyp]

Let us know if they fix the problem and what was causing it.

.

I sure will guys. I appreciate all the contributions and advice. This has been a very long but extremely helpful thread and has covered everything.
Fitting new impellor pump tommorow and a new Thermostat as the engine got VERY hot the day I got stuck so that might be a contributing factor on the fresh water side.

But mainly, we will be checking the sea water system from where it enters the boat underwater and every hose and pipe connection to the exit pipe.
Having Completely overhauled the sea water and fresh water systems by the end of it, it should be good until the spring when we begin by overhauling and servicing the engine, changing all the skin fittings, and sanding the hull back to remove decades of old antifouling and reapplying with good quality paint.
Warning light bulbs and sensors.
Standing and running rigging. The whole boat will be checked over before we leave the United Kingdom's waters.

I will report back on this thread and let you all know what the cause was.

Thanks again

RitchyP