Beta engine breakdown in the clyde !

[Crinan12]

Hi all

Following on from mull of kintyre post !
So we were on our way home from Crinan today and our engine started breaking down just off dunoon . It intitally started spluttering but not actually dying - did that 4 times I think then conked out. It then started again. Then died again then started again. We eventually made it to holly loch marina. Was very happy to get tied up as the engine died just as we were berthing !

I must admit I was panicking like mad, I'm sure more than the situation merited. But we are pretty hopeless at sailing and we really rely on the engine.

Tomorrow I intend to drain the fuel and change the primary and secondary filters and fill up with fresh fuel and bleed the system. Then start and run the engine revved up in neutral for an hour or so to make sure everything is okay before going anywhere . Does that sound sensible?

There is a mechanic at the marina (swordfish something?) and I would have no problem waiting until Monday to ask them to look at the engine.

It's a beta 16 up by the way.
Thanks !

Douglas

I phoned the coastguard when we were breaking down and they said to give them a call when we had arrived at holy loch which I did.

 

[DownWest]

Does sound like fuel, so running it in gear for a bit at the pontoon should show up any probs. That is, after changing the filters and bleeding.

Recent problem was valves in the lift pump sticking. Caused lack of power and eventual stop, but It would re-start for a bit, then stumble.

 

[Biggles Wader]

When this happened to me it was crud in the tank blocking the fuel uptake line. The filters were clean. I took off the fuel lines and renewed them and drained the tank via the sump. There was crud there. I have used Marine 16 anti bug ever since and all has been well.

 

[macd]

Then start and run the engine revved up in neutral for an hour or so to make sure everything is okay before going anywhere . Does that sound sensible?

As DownWest suggested, run it up in gear whilst tied up. Running it in neutral will tell you very little. (And don't be surprised if it fails to deliver normal full revs whilst stationary: that's perfectly normal.) Good luck.

 

[LittleSister]

You may well find that just changing the primary filter will sort it.

Your pick up pipe may be blocked, your tank may be half full of crud, your secondary filter may be affected, the engine may be disintegrating and the sky falling in, but most likely you just have a choked primary filter and a small amount of crud in the tank (which might now all be in the filter if you are lucky).

That's what happened to me. Filter blocked with some glutinous muck. Inspected inside of tank (fortunately easy on the particular boat) and the half I could see was sparkling. New primary filter and it was sorted, and was fine subsequently.

I suggest you start by changing the primary filter and have a look inside the one you remove. See if engine starts and runs OK, including under load, not just in neutral. Whatever happens, don't venture out again without spare filters - you'll need them one day. Try to inspect the tank. Consider whether any further steps are required.

Note also that if an engine is faltering through fuel starvation, rather than trying to continue to get full power, try reducing revs to a minimum. When we were afflicted by the blocked filter, it was far too rough want to attempt a filter change where we were, the engine kept restarting then dying as soon as we tried to continue. I eventually realised the engine would run OK if I kept to very low revs, which gave us steerage way to get into a sheltered marina (fortunately not far away), where investigations and remedial action could be undertaken more easily.

 

[Praxinoscope]

Certainly sounds like fuel, had a similar problem my Beta10 on my previous boat, eventually tracked it down to air entering the fuel lines so changed all the ‘crimp’ clips on the rubber fuel lines with jubilee clips, problem solved.

 

[Old Harry]

As DownWest suggested, run it up in gear whilst tied up. Running it in neutral will tell you very little. (And don't be surprised if it fails to deliver normal full revs whilst stationary: that's perfectly normal.) Good luck.

If the stack pipe is picking up tank crap, running the engine alongside wont show much, as the tank contents will not be stirred up as the vessel isnt in a seaway

 

[macd]

If the stack pipe is picking up tank crap, running the engine alongside wont show much, as the tank contents will not be stirred up as the vessel isnt in a seaway

...but running it in neutral will show even less.

 

[Crinan12]

Ok great thanks
Will get started on that 1st thing
Didn't know engine had to be to be in gear- in fact said to my girlfriend running in neutral but revved up must be the same as in gear ! Didn't try the low revs thing either- we had it full blast most of time as were desperate to get to marina.

I always keep our tank really full. This is probably as low as it's ever been - about half full. Not sure if that's just a coincidence
Cheers

 

[PetiteFleur]

It could be an air leak on one of the unions. This happened to us years ago in Holland about 50hrs after fitting a new engine, fuel tank and pipework. Did the usual change filters etc and in desperation called the Beta agent in Ipswich who said it's an air leak - tighten all the unions - which I did and it's been fine since.

 

[Old Harry]

...but running it in neutral will show even less.

Did i mention that ???

 

[Old Harry]

Ok great thanks
Will get started on that 1st thing
Didn't know engine had to be to be in gear- in fact said to my girlfriend running in neutral but revved up must be the same as in gear ! Didn't try the low revs thing either- we had it full blast most of time as were desperate to get to marina.

I always keep our tank really full. This is probably as low as it's ever been - about half full. Not sure if that's just a coincidence
Cheers

Diesel engine`s prefer to work hard, running under no or light load can cause "glazing" of the bore`s

 

[earlybird]

I always keep our tank really full. This is probably as low as it's ever been - about half full. Not sure if that's just a coincidence

Maybe a coincidence, as you suggest, but a low tank level can also challenge an iffy fuel lift pump as the required lift is increased.
A low level might also increase crud loading due to more swirling with boat movement.

 

[Mistroma]

Hi all

Following on from mull of kintyre post !
So we were on our way home from Crinan today and our engine started breaking down just off dunoon . It intitally started spluttering but not actually dying - did that 4 times I think then conked out. It then started again. Then died again then started again. We eventually made it to holly loch marina. Was very happy to get tied up as the engine died just as we were berthing !

I must admit I was panicking like mad, I'm sure more than the situation merited. But we are pretty hopeless at sailing and we really rely on the engine.

Tomorrow I intend to drain the fuel and change the primary and secondary filters and fill up with fresh fuel and bleed the system. Then start and run the engine revved up in neutral for an hour or so to make sure everything is okay before going anywhere . Does that sound sensible?

There is a mechanic at the marina (swordfish something?) and I would have no problem waiting until Monday to ask them to look at the engine.

It's a beta 16 up by the way.
Thanks !

Douglas

I phoned the coastguard when we were breaking down and they said to give them a call when we had arrived at holy loch which I did.

At least Swordfish Marine are nearby if you need help. Pete isn't just a mechanic/fitter, he has a marine engineering degree and knows what he is doing. A lot of experience and practical aptitude, not your usual fitter and he is always in demand, often in other marinas as well as Holy Loch.

I have to admit to being somewhat biased, tell him his uncle Mike says Hi if you do see him.

 

[Crinan12]

Will do mike - I hope he works on Sundays!

 

[adwuk]

Another vote for Swordfish marine. Hopefully though you will change the primary filter and everything will be back to normal.

 

[Crinan12]

Do others panic in this sort of situation? Or just calmly sail into the marina? We wouldn't be able to do that- we're still at the 'which side of the boat do we put the jib out on again?'

Cheers

 

[adwuk]

No need to panic, but sailing into the marina will depend on the boat, the marina and the conditions. Other options include anchoring, using the tender and outboard to provide power or calling up the marina to see if they have a workboat that can come and assist. Plenty of options usually.

 

[Mistroma]

Will do mike - I hope he works on Sundays!

Last time I checked he worked Mon.-Fri. and 1/2 day Sat. but closed on Sundays. I wouldn't be too surprised if he did sometimes turn up for urgent work on a Sunday when busy. However, I imagine things would be quieter in October than mid.-Summer and less likely to be working on a Sunday.

I'd agree with other posts about checking the fuel pipe at the tank. I believe that the pipe inlet is usually a small distance from the bottom and often has a small mesh filter on the end. Crud should settle at the bottom but can be stirred up and block the mesh filter. I've heard of it happening and actually ran into 2 boats with this problem in Greece this year.

It might be something you can check and fix without buying any parts. My tank has a flexible hose connected to a flange on top of the tank. The flange is held in place by 4 screws and I imagine that this sort of arrangement will be fairly common. Not much risk in loosening the flange and lifting the pipe to look at the end section. You'd only get a slight leak if you have a very full tank and can't seal it properly. I imagine you could live with that until you get material, gasket etc. to seal properly.

N.B. I have a plastic tank and open a port for inspection twice a year and never had a problem getting it sealed again.

 

[Concerto]

Ok great thanks
Will get started on that 1st thing
Didn't know engine had to be to be in gear- in fact said to my girlfriend running in neutral but revved up must be the same as in gear ! Didn't try the low revs thing either- we had it full blast most of time as were desperate to get to marina.

I always keep our tank really full. This is probably as low as it's ever been - about half full. Not sure if that's just a coincidence
Cheers

If running in gear in a marina berth make sure you have springs fitted to take the strain. I regularly run my Beta 25 in the berth during the winter, but always use forward and reverse to wash as much water over the hull to keep the antifouling cleaner and charge the batteries.