Best Value For Money New Generation Anchor

[Roberto]

I stand corrected, thanks!

Anchor threads and squabble? Surely not!

Jonathan

There were some epic fights between himself (I don t remember his nickname here on ybw, he often used "Alain d'Hylas" on French forum) and Craig Smith; in terms of internet marketing aggressiveness, Craig was a toddler with regards to Hylas, at least in French language media
I remember TwisterK "definition of a split second": the amount of time passing from the moment the word "anchor" appears in a forum, and the first Hylas message.

 

[noelex]

I note the preceding list and thus cannot understand on what measure, for example, Fortress could be excluded.

The Fortress has exceptionally good holding in softer substrates, but in my view does not cope with a change in direction of pull as well as the other anchor models mentioned. I also feel it can struggle in harder, and weeder substrates.

I think an anchor should display a broad range of attributes to qualify for the term "High Performance Design". Retaining hold with a changing direction of pull is one important attribute that needs to be included. I also feel the anchor should perform well in a wide range of the sort of substrates that are likely to be encountered by cruising sailors. This is why I did not include the Fortress, but I do own one (and a Guardian) and find them useful secondary anchors.

I don't think everyone will agree on exactly which anchor models should be included in this category but I think there might be a broad consensus about many models. I am an optimist at heart .

The term "New Generation" anchor is commonly used, but I think it creates some confusion where some readers assume the term relates to all anchors that have been designed recently.

 

[Neeves]

Very small point but not being on a "would include" list is different from being excluded.

Very true, my sensitivities are showing

 

[Neeves]

The Fortress has exceptionally good holding in softer substrates, but in my view does not cope with a change in direction of pull as well as the other anchor models mentioned. I also feel it can struggle in harder, and weeder substrates.

I think an anchor should display a broad range of attributes to qualify for the term "High Performance Design". Retaining hold with a changing direction of pull is one important attribute that needs to be included. I also feel the anchor should perform well in a wide range of the sort of substrates that are likely to be encountered by cruising sailors. This is why I did not include the Fortress, but I do own one (and a Guardian) and find them useful secondary anchors.

I don't think everyone will agree on exactly which anchor models should be included in this category but I think there might be a broad consensus about many models. I am an optimist at heart .

The term "New Generation" anchor is commonly used, but I think it creates some confusion where some readers assume the term relates to all anchors that have been designed recently.

Interesting given that the Vendee Globe yachts carry 2 Fortress which have been used successfully at Auckland Island twice now in weather conditions far more severe than any one here will ever experience (and the bay is prone to kelp). Mike Golding stated, personal email exchange, he has used his Fortress a number of times on races - and he carries it because it works (or he would not carry it were it not reliable). The Volvo have used theirs a number of times, most recently when the fleet crossed Storm Bay. The Volvo specifically dictate the FX 85 - because it works. Suggesting Volvo specific Fortress for its light weight lacks validity - they need to move and deploy using halyard (as do Clipper) as the rode itself weighs 35kg and the anchor too large and heavy to manoeuvre by one individual - when all the anchors are identical and specified and supplied by Volvo - they could all be Rocna, or Spade - but they choose Fortress.

And then Morgan's Cloud and some others (Evan Starzinger for example) would exclude roll bar anchors, they specifically would not include a Rocna (and I assume because it is vaguely similar - Manson's Supreme), for their propensity to clog its fluke and on a change of wind direction be unable to reset. Most anchors cannot cope with thin mud. Few anchors can cope with medium to heavy weed.

If we took all of these foibles of every anchor we would have no high performance anchors at all!

We need to accept there is no perfect anchor and carry 'high performance' anchors for the seabeds we are likely to encounter. For many who anchor in one seabed alone - they will rightly suggest that their Bruce (the primary choice on Hawk, replacing their Rocna), CQR (on Sunstone) and the Delta, (2 on every Clipper yacht) etc is as high performance as they need and have decades of user experience to back their stance.

Some of the 'johnny come lately' models - now that they have a decent population are starting to show their weaknesses, the clogged flukes, the snapped toes - Spade, Fortress (who have sold over 500,000 models), will engender comment - simply because there is now so much history - but you do not sell half a million anchors if they do not work! and you do not survive in this competitive market since 1990 (both Spade and Fortress) (and - if you like CQR, early 1930s, Danforth 1939, Bruce 1970 and Delta late 1985 ish) if you are not successful - and proven so.

 

[Poignard]

Before I started reading the anchor threads on tbis forum I used to anchor happily with my CQR. I would drop the anchor, let the yacht settle, take some bearings of objects ashore and then relax; I even used to sleep at anchor. Been doing it for decades without alarm or incident.

But not any more! Now when I anchor I'm in a constant blue funk. Terrified, I can't sleep anymore; I hardly dare leave the cockpit; waiting for the dread sound of the anchor dragging. My wife is threatening to divorce me because I disturb her sleep with my prowling around the deck at night, constantly checking bearings, fiddling with the GPS anchor alarm settings. My nerves are completely shot!

 

[awol]

Same problem with my CQR copy - I wake up always surprised to be in the same place I anchored. I'm getting better, though. I have relaxed the anchor alarm to 0.02nm.

 

[Neeves]

Parsifal - your anchor is obviously not big enough Go with the flow and buy a portable mooring. Or better still spend your money on wine - works for us

 

[Flica]

The Delta, with its inadequate fluke area, has just dragged, tied up on Oriei quay in a S5 straight into the harbour mouth.

My choice for replacement is the 13lb Mantus or the FX11. The Mantus is available in Greece @ €210, the FX 11 is €261, in Greece, weighs 3.2kg. Both anchors are considerably larger and more difficult to handle than the 6kg Delta, but lighter in weight.
Rode will be 25m of 7mm chain and 50m of 10mm octoplait.

I'd welcome any input as to which I should choose.

No chance, as a single-hander with a manual winch, of using the bower, to tie up to a quay.

 

[Sybarite]

With respect, that claim begs the question. If it were true that any new anchor product that had involved modelling made the anchor more effective, everyone would be ditching their CQRs, Deltas and Brittanys for cheap new commodity picks. .

I noted that French lifeboats are equipped with Brittany anchors - which is an endorsement.

 

[Sybarite]

Interesting given that the Vendee Globe yachts carry 2 Fortress which have been used successfully at Auckland Island twice now in weather conditions far more severe than any one here will ever experience (and the bay is prone to kelp). Mike Golding stated, personal email exchange, he has used his Fortress a number of times on races - and he carries it because it works (or he would not carry it were it not reliable). The Volvo have used theirs a number of times, most recently when the fleet crossed Storm Bay. The Volvo specifically dictate the FX 85 - because it works. Suggesting Volvo specific Fortress for its light weight lacks validity - they need to move and deploy using halyard (as do Clipper) as the rode itself weighs 35kg and the anchor too large and heavy to manoeuvre by one individual - when all the anchors are identical and specified and supplied by Volvo - they could all be Rocna, or Spade - but they choose Fortress.

And then Morgan's Cloud and some others (Evan Starzinger for example) would exclude roll bar anchors, they specifically would not include a Rocna (and I assume because it is vaguely similar - Manson's Supreme), for their propensity to clog its fluke and on a change of wind direction be unable to reset. Most anchors cannot cope with thin mud. Few anchors can cope with medium to heavy weed.

If we took all of these foibles of every anchor we would have no high performance anchors at all!

We need to accept there is no perfect anchor and carry 'high performance' anchors for the seabeds we are likely to encounter. For many who anchor in one seabed alone - they will rightly suggest that their Bruce (the primary choice on Hawk, replacing their Rocna), CQR (on Sunstone) and the Delta, (2 on every Clipper yacht) etc is as high performance as they need and have decades of user experience to back their stance.

Some of the 'johnny come lately' models - now that they have a decent population are starting to show their weaknesses, the clogged flukes, the snapped toes - Spade, Fortress (who have sold over 500,000 models), will engender comment - simply because there is now so much history - but you do not sell half a million anchors if they do not work! and you do not survive in this competitive market since 1990 (both Spade and Fortress) (and - if you like CQR, early 1930s, Danforth 1939, Bruce 1970 and Delta late 1985 ish) if you are not successful - and proven so.

The specific problem mentionned in the French reports concerning the CQR is the weight of the hinge. On a change of pull direction the weight of the hinge acts against the point digging in and there are many test examples of the anchor dragging along on its side. OTOH the Spade has a lead weighted tip.

 

[Neeves]

The Delta, with its inadequate fluke area, has just dragged, tied up on Oriei quay in a S5 straight into the harbour mouth.

My choice for replacement is the 13lb Mantus or the FX11. The Mantus is available in Greece @ €210, the FX 11 is €261, in Greece, weighs 3.2kg. Both anchors are considerably larger and more difficult to handle than the 6kg Delta, but lighter in weight.
Rode will be 25m of 7mm chain and 50m of 10mm octoplait.

I'd welcome any input as to which I should choose.

No chance, as a single-hander with a manual winch, of using the bower, to tie up to a quay.

I'd be careful of the Mantus, it sets very shallow - the fluke commonly lies at 16 degrees to the seabed whereas virtually every other anchor lies, or sets, with its fluke established at 30 degrees. To develop hold the Mantus fluke needs to move further in the seabed. You can see this in Noelex images - the long of the shank is always horizontal - look at the Mantus side on and if the shank is horizontal the fluke must be at 16 degrees. Most anchors set with the shackle end and toe engaging simultaneously - this gives a fluke seabed angle of 30 degrees. The Mantus 'bites' quickly but then will take much further to develop the same hold as say a Fortress or Spade.

Mantus have been shown to be weak at the toe where the weld is - get it caught in a ground chain and you may snap it off. The only anchor I have seen where the steel actually tears, or snaps, is a Mantus (at the toe). The toes also bend, their is no strengthening structure, as in the Rocna or Supreme (though nearly all anchors can bend)

I you want cheap and cheerful, Kobra. Many Americans use a Fortress as their primary, they are not fools - they use them because they work. If you are retrieving by hand then alloy is the way to go. We have been exclusively alloy now, Spade, Excel, Fortress for a good few years now. If you have a good deck wash then Rocna and Supreme would be on your list - but check they fit your bow roller (the roll bar can be an impediment). Spade are excellent. You have plenty of choice - much will depend on what's available easily and whether they fit.

But its worth mentioning - there are lots of images of badly set anchors - but few reports of these self same yachts dragging and no reports of the yachts being on beaches. Thousands use CQRs, Deltas and Bruce and if they cannot be set, do not reset (or any of the other nightmare scenarios causing fear, and blue funks) then these owners (or their wives) would soon not anchor, ever, or would quickly change their anchor. The fact we still see them being used seems to suggest to me that many have mastered the art and are more than happy (though they may suit their local seabeds and they do not venture further afield.

 

[Neeves]

I noted that French lifeboats are equipped with Brittany anchors - which is an endorsement.

I note the new RNLI Severn (?) Class use Spade, that must be an endorsement.

Jonathan

 

[Flica]

I'd be careful of the Mantus, it sets very shallow - the fluke commonly lies at 16 degrees to the seabed whereas virtually every other anchor lies, or sets, with its fluke established at 30 degrees. To develop hold the Mantus fluke needs to move further in the seabed. You can see this in Noelex images - the long of the shank is always horizontal - look at the Mantus side on and if the shank is horizontal the fluke must be at 16 degrees. Most anchors set with the shackle end and toe engaging simultaneously - this gives a fluke seabed angle of 30 degrees. The Mantus 'bites' quickly but then will take much further to develop the same hold as say a Fortress or Spade.

Mantus have been shown to be weak at the toe where the weld is - get it caught in a ground chain and you may snap it off. The only anchor I have seen where the steel actually tears, or snaps, is a Mantus (at the toe). The toes also bend, their is no strengthening structure, as in the Rocna or Supreme (though nearly all anchors can bend)

I you want cheap and cheerful, Kobra. Many Americans use a Fortress as their primary, they are not fools - they use them because they work. If you are retrieving by hand then alloy is the way to go. We have been exclusively alloy now, Spade, Excel, Fortress for a good few years now. If you have a good deck wash then Rocna and Supreme would be on your list - but check they fit your bow roller (the roll bar can be an impediment). Spade are excellent. You have plenty of choice - much will depend on what's available easily and whether they fit.

But its worth mentioning - there are lots of images of badly set anchors - but few reports of these self same yachts dragging and no reports of the yachts being on beaches. Thousands use CQRs, Deltas and Bruce and if they cannot be set, do not reset (or any of the other nightmare scenarios causing fear, and blue funks) then these owners (or their wives) would soon not anchor, ever, or would quickly change their anchor. The fact we still see them being used seems to suggest to me that many have mastered the art and are more than happy (though they may suit their local seabeds and they do not venture further afield.

Thanks for your input Jonathan.

First, may I stress that this anchor is an aft kedge, laid only when end-on mooring in Mediterranean ports, usually on stiff mud bottoms and has to be hand-deployed and recovered.

First may I confirm to you, that if you use the correct weight Mantus (unlike Noelex) the anchor sets with only the top of the roll-bar showing, on "good" bottoms. I've dived on my own bower anchor, which has had about 200 deployments, enough times to know this is a fact, not an opinion. It does, on a hard substrate, not penetrate as far, frequently the whole roll bar is exposed on those bottoms - getting it up is then usually a struggle, with a large piece of the substrate coming up on the fluke. I set the anchor @ 2000r pm in reverse (unless anchoring under sail), when I come downwind @ about 3 knots and lay out the anchor and chain.

I used a CQR for 15 years - little to choose between that and the Delta, except the Delta is more convenient to handle, sets more easily and is slightly shorter.

The FX11 has one major benefit, it's about half the weight of the Mantus, and another minor one in being almost flat and easier to stow on the taffrail. However I've seen two competent single-handers using a Fortress, on the stern, and both had problems. Mind you neither used any chain and, IMHO, had too little scope. (Perhaps believing Brian Sheehan's publicity too implicitly).
Remember the prevalence of "hard bottoms" in many island harbours.
So genuine pros and cons - not to do with which works better - I've had a kedge Danforth on my last two boat, used over the last 35 years and know that providing it's in a yielding bottom and doesn't need to frequently re-set it' hard to beat.
It has more to do with an 81-year old single-hander looking for the best "system" for end-to mooring, with only a manual windlass, on a 31' lightweight boat which had a design weight of 3 tons but is nearer 4.25 tons.
Oh! a last 2 points - the Mantus has roughly 30% more fluke area than the FX11 and costs 75% of the Fortress price.
Which brings us back to the original poster's query, which is the best value for money anchor? I'm trying to set a more specific scenario than the original - so need more specific input.

 

[Neeves]

The larger the anchor the more difficult to set, any of them, deeply, simple stuff. It does not matter how big your anchor is - if your yacht develops, through wind or engine, a tension of, say 300kg, then the hold will be 300kg. If you exceed the 'capacity' of the anchor, so if the anchor is too small, this is an issue but in, say sand, a 15kg Rocna will develop a hold of 2,000kg - its big enough.

Dashew suggest monster anchors. His 64' motor yacht has a 250hp engine, most yachts of 65' might have a 75hp engine - guess which engine can more deeply set the anchor. Hold is measured in the horizontal - if you drift back over your, shallow set, anchor - which do you want a deep set or shallow set anchor. Seabed shear strength increases with the square of depth.

An argument is in 'difficult' substrates a bigger anchor will develop more hold - there is no data to support this. In difficult substrates you need an anchor that works in that substrate.

But returning to my statement that a Mantus sets shallow. If your anchor is smaller, than Noelex, the anchor will set more deeply. But a smaller Mantus still sets with the shallow fluke angle (I have both a 5kg and 15kg version which I have compared to 15kg versions of Spade, Excel, etc but only 13kg Knox). So to bury a Mantus the fluke has to travel further (and may meet some impediment on the way). Biting quickly, which the Mantus does (though I'm not sure that is noticeable better than say a Supreme) does not then mean it sets to its ultimate quickly. A Supreme sets with the fluke at about 30 degrees (as does a Rocna, Spade, Knox, Excel) - it does depend on scope ratio (short, or too short scope, and they will also set more shallow, say 25 degrees). But a Mantus even at a decent scope sets at 16 degrees - and shear strength increases with the square of depth. My Mantus anchors just before the shank disappears - the shank is horizontal (so fluke must be at 16 degrees).

Think of a shovel in cement, shallow at 16 degrees or more deeply 30 degrees.

But - and its a big but - anchors are over specified. I ran a thread here, maybe 12 months ago, and no-one admitted their modern anchor (Rocna, Supreme, Excel, Spade etc) dragged, whether they bought the recommended size, oversized by one or 2 sizes or the few, like me, who have undersized. Modern anchors are superb - as long as you are using the right anchor for the seabed and set with some care - they do not drag (excepting they pick up a crab pot, supermarket trolley, gas cylinder or clog).

I voted with our wallet - I wanted more reliability so we use Fortress, Spade and Excel (all alloy) and I would not now use a CQR, Delta or Bruce, but I've got used to reliability and anchor in a cross section of seabeds. Our alloy Excel we first used in 2009 - excellent product, but expensive. We are a 38' cat, 22' beam, weigh 7t and use alloy anchors the same size as a 15kg steel equivalent.

Spade (steel), Fortress, Rocna, Excel (steel), Ultra, Supreme have all been approved by Classification Societies, or equivalent - and they tend to be a bit more expensive. But they are 'proven'. Kobra and Mantus are cheaper but both have questionable strength issues, but they are cheap.

Best value for money - well, you get what you pay for!

If the Fortress is smaller, as you mention, it will set more deeply more quickly - because it IS smaller but also because its fluke is thinner. Some seabeds will defeat a Fortress, stones and medium to thick weed will not be its strength - give it some mud or sand and it will outperform its peers. Put an Excel, Ultra, Kobra or Spade into weed or stones and they will outperform their peers, they have no roll bar.

Best value for money, for cheaper, Kobra - for a bigger wallet Spade (Excel - bit far to import, so unrealistic) for a really big wallet Ultra.

As a kedge a Mantus will be fine - but you might need to deploy a bit early to ensure you allow distance to develop a deeper set. You already have a Mantus and I'd suggest you broaden your quiver and think of either a Kobra (which will be better in weed or stones) or a Fortress which will be better in sand and mud. I try to steer people to have a cross section of designs if they are likely to anchor in a cross section of seabeds. Mind you I don't beehive in 'kedge' being smaller - if you carry a second anchor it should be able to replace the primary, in case you lose it (been there, done that) which is why our anchors are all the same size.

Sorry - a bit wordy, for which I am criticised - but I'm not being paid to be brief!

I was not aware Brian@Fortress was suggesting no chain and short scopes - I must take more note of his suggestions.

 

[GHA]

But its worth mentioning - there are lots of images of badly set anchors - but few reports of these self same yachts dragging and no reports of the yachts being on beaches. Thousands use CQRs, Deltas and Bruce and if they cannot be set, do not reset (or any of the other nightmare scenarios causing fear, and blue funks) then these owners (or their wives) would soon not anchor, ever, or would quickly change their anchor. The fact we still see them being used seems to suggest to me that many have mastered the art and are more than happy (though they may suit their local seabeds and they do not venture further afield.

But boats drag all the time, lots of them. Over the summer here in Portugal the local anchorage would have a few dragging through the anchorage every time the wind started gusting over 20/25Kts. Very rare among the long term cruisers though, they tend to have a decent setup and know what they are doing. Even, gasp!!! , up a size or so from anchor manufacturers sizing tables.
The boats stay off the beach by whoever is onboard firing up the engine, plain luck or a friendly cruiser helping out.

 

[Neeves]

GHA - you know me too well - I don't subscribe to the idea that you need a bigger anchor, what you need is an anchor that is set (and set, or will set, deeply). Too many swear by CQR, Bruce of Delta.

The key may be

'they tend to have a decent setup and know what they are doing'.

If Skip Novak uses a CQR in Patagonia, Sunstone sailed the Aleutions with a CQR from east, Japan, to west Alaska, Hawk uses a Bruce (in preference to a Rocna) and the whole Clipper fleet, Delta - then I for one will believe they are comfortable in their choice - and they work. No-one is going to risk an accident on a Clipper yacht caused by a duff anchor - the scandal and costs would be horrendous.

When we started anchoring (genuine 20lb CQR, we still have it), some decades ago, we (actually I) would drop the anchor and go for a San Miguel. We would have dinner and go to bed. There was none of this idea of power setting, yes - check transits - but they are of little value if you are asleep. GPS had not been invented, forget the idea of an anchor alarm. Now (today), as has been mentioned - its a huge ritual (though we still seldom set an anchor alarm) and though I'm asleep I think sub-consciously I'm afraid I'll be embarrassed That's the downside of sticking you neck out!

The beauty of modern anchors is that they are predictably reliable and I might slowly be becoming a bit complacent.

What is interesting is that the sizing charts for Rocna, Excel et al are so similar to CQR, Bruce and Delta - the new anchors are 'better' but the manufacturers still suggest similar sizings to the older models - someone is hedging their bets! Only Spade seem to suggest you can save a few Kgs.

But most of the time people head for the marina when 25 knots is forecast - or they are lucky (as you say).

Jonathan

 

[GHA]

GHA - you know me too well - I don't subscribe to the idea that you need a bigger anchor, what you need is an anchor that is set (and set, or will set, deeply). Too many swear by CQR, Bruce of Delta.

The key may be

'they tend to have a decent setup and know what they are doing'.

If Skip Novak uses a CQR in Patagonia, Sunstone sailed the Aleutions with a CQR from east, Japan, to west Alaska,

really BIG one
"One thing is for sure, though: heavier than recommended ground tackle can do no harm. An extra 10-15kg on the bow of a 55-footer, for example, is neither here nor there as regards performance."

Hawk uses a Bruce (in preference to a Rocna)

Again , a really BIG one. Can't find the link now but he had more success in Tierre Del Fuego with an oversize bruce copy. Rocna sizing had something like a 55lb anchor, theirs was more like 110Lb!

But most of the time people head for the marina when 25 knots is forecast - or they are lucky (as you say).

Lucky to have marinas to run to

 

[Flica]

The larger the anchor the more difficult to set, any of them, deeply, simple stuff. It does not matter how big your anchor is - if your yacht develops, through wind or engine, a tension of, say 300kg, then the hold will be 300kg. If you exceed the 'capacity' of the anchor, so if the anchor is too small, this is an issue but in, say sand, a 15kg Rocna will develop a hold of 2,000kg - its big enough.

Dashew suggest monster anchors. His 64' motor yacht has a 250hp engine, most yachts of 65' might have a 75hp engine - guess which engine can more deeply set the anchor. Hold is measured in the horizontal - if you drift back over your, shallow set, anchor - which do you want a deep set or shallow set anchor. Seabed shear strength increases with the square of depth.

An argument is in 'difficult' substrates a bigger anchor will develop more hold - there is no data to support this. In difficult substrates you need an anchor that works in that substrate.

But returning to my statement that a Mantus sets shallow. If your anchor is smaller, than Noelex, the anchor will set more deeply. But a smaller Mantus still sets with the shallow fluke angle (I have both a 5kg and 15kg version which I have compared to 15kg versions of Spade, Excel, etc but only 13kg Knox). So to bury a Mantus the fluke has to travel further (and may meet some impediment on the way). Biting quickly, which the Mantus does (though I'm not sure that is noticeable better than say a Supreme) does not then mean it sets to its ultimate quickly. A Supreme sets with the fluke at about 30 degrees (as does a Rocna, Spade, Knox, Excel) - it does depend on scope ratio (short, or too short scope, and they will also set more shallow, say 25 degrees). But a Mantus even at a decent scope sets at 16 degrees - and shear strength increases with the square of depth. My Mantus anchors just before the shank disappears - the shank is horizontal (so fluke must be at 16 degrees).

Think of a shovel in cement, shallow at 16 degrees or more deeply 30 degrees.

But - and its a big but - anchors are over specified. I ran a thread here, maybe 12 months ago, and no-one admitted their modern anchor (Rocna, Supreme, Excel, Spade etc) dragged, whether they bought the recommended size, oversized by one or 2 sizes or the few, like me, who have undersized. Modern anchors are superb - as long as you are using the right anchor for the seabed and set with some care - they do not drag (excepting they pick up a crab pot, supermarket trolley, gas cylinder or clog).

I voted with our wallet - I wanted more reliability so we use Fortress, Spade and Excel (all alloy) and I would not now use a CQR, Delta or Bruce, but I've got used to reliability and anchor in a cross section of seabeds. Our alloy Excel we first used in 2009 - excellent product, but expensive. We are a 38' cat, 22' beam, weigh 7t and use alloy anchors the same size as a 15kg steel equivalent.

Spade (steel), Fortress, Rocna, Excel (steel), Ultra, Supreme have all been approved by Classification Societies, or equivalent - and they tend to be a bit more expensive. But they are 'proven'. Kobra and Mantus are cheaper but both have questionable strength issues, but they are cheap.

Best value for money - well, you get what you pay for!

If the Fortress is smaller, as you mention, it will set more deeply more quickly - because it IS smaller but also because its fluke is thinner. Some seabeds will defeat a Fortress, stones and medium to thick weed will not be its strength - give it some mud or sand and it will outperform its peers. Put an Excel, Ultra, Kobra or Spade into weed or stones and they will outperform their peers, they have no roll bar.

Best value for money, for cheaper, Kobra - for a bigger wallet Spade (Excel - bit far to import, so unrealistic) for a really big wallet Ultra.

As a kedge a Mantus will be fine - but you might need to deploy a bit early to ensure you allow distance to develop a deeper set. You already have a Mantus and I'd suggest you broaden your quiver and think of either a Kobra (which will be better in weed or stones) or a Fortress which will be better in sand and mud. I try to steer people to have a cross section of designs if they are likely to anchor in a cross section of seabeds. Mind you I don't beehive in 'kedge' being smaller - if you carry a second anchor it should be able to replace the primary, in case you lose it (been there, done that) which is why our anchors are all the same size.

Sorry - a bit wordy, for which I am criticised - but I'm not being paid to be brief!

I was not aware Brian@Fortress was suggesting no chain and short scopes - I must take more note of his suggestions.

Brian very definitely recommends 4 textile to 1 chain, people seem to think (and I've seen) that's all textile.

the final decision will probably come down to the Fortress, mainly because it's easier to stow on the pulpit.
In fact I'm sticking to what I know, using a Danforth since 1972. I once lay to it in a Meltemi reaching 44 knots, for 3 days.
I deploy the Delta about 50 m from the quay, it needs a long way to set.
The big problem with Med mooring and anchors is the crossing of rodes that goes on and the need to subsequently untangle.

I've already got a Delta, the predecessor of the Kobra, both have a fluke area of about 50% of the Fortress. That's why I'm changing. Why would I have the same again?
looks as though the Kobra 2 is not on sale in Greece. Going by UK prices it looks to be the cheapest.

With all respect to all this wisdom about anchors - I still maintain that it is the anchorer who is the key critical variable.
This one observes that, after 3 slip and slides in about 20 deployments and how it's happened it's time for an anchor with a larger fluke area. Unless I go to hernia inducing weights, the two I've selected appear to have a larger fluke area than any of their competition.

 

[Neeves]

GHA - I'm not arguing about an extra 10kg over recommended size for a 55' yacht

Evan never said why he changed from a Rocna to a Bruce, or Bruce copy. He was very coy. Someone mentioned his website had been taken down, but that is purely anecdotal - I have not checked. - and there is certainly a distinct absence of marina's there! and oddly popular usage of CQRs, and Bruce, did not see many Delta.

In Tierra del Fuego its de rigour to tie to shore

Jonathan

 

[Flica]

really BIG one
"One thing is for sure, though: heavier than recommended ground tackle can do no harm. An extra 10-15kg on the bow of a 55-footer, for example, is neither here nor there as regards performance."


Again , a really BIG one. Can't find the link now but he had more success in Tierre Del Fuego with an oversize bruce copy. Rocna sizing had something like a 55lb anchor, theirs was more like 110Lb!



Lucky to have marinas to run to

If you've a nice big windlass in a nice big boat, I'd agree that Big is Beautiful. But when you're ageing and have to do everything by hand one looks for the most efficient, the lightest that will work 95% of the time.