Best TV sets for onboard.

[lustyd]

My error, I accredited you with the original 'get someone smarter jibe' my sincere apologies.

Yes that was me, pointing out that Currys are unable to spot the DC input on the back of the TV you bought and confirmed that it didn't have an external DC power supply (it does). The person you spoke to, assuming it was a human, didn't bother to look at the product you were asking about and clearly didn't understand the question. Paul did. I did. Others on the forum did. If I got the wrong link earlier I appologise, here is the £179 LG TV you mentioned and which you say you bought. You'll note the picture of the back of it has the DC input I mentioned, same as the other model. Unlike Currys I have no motivation to help you on this matter, I make no profit from the sale and couldn't give two hoots which TV you buy.

LG 24TN510S 24" Smart HD Ready LED TV

 

[[185615]]

Yes that was me, pointing out that Currys are unable to spot the DC input on the back of the TV you bought and confirmed that it didn't have an external DC power supply (it does). The person you spoke to, assuming it was a human, didn't bother to look at the product you were asking about and clearly didn't understand the question. Paul did. I did. Others on the forum did. If I got the wrong link earlier I appologise, here is the £179 LG TV you mentioned and which you say you bought. You'll note the picture of the back of it has the DC input I mentioned, same as the other model. Unlike Currys I have no motivation to help you on this matter, I make no profit from the sale and couldn't give two hoots which TV you buy.

LG 24TN510S 24" Smart HD Ready LED TV

My call to Curry’s was the result of a message from you that the model selected was run on 19v and was NOT mains powered (my caps) #29
Which of course is the opposite of the truth.
I then spoke with Curry’s and asked them was this mains powered or DC powered, mains for certain with a 3 pin plug, yes he said it is mains powered, and he was right.
I do not imagine he took one out of a box to look when he knew perfectly well it was mains powered.
Looking on the site the rear of the set has various fittings meaningless to me, and probably the average sales person.
You mislead me by stating it was not mains powered, when it clearly is, I suggest you find someone cleverer than you to fact check before you commit to advising others.
The problem arises from both yours and Paul’s obsession with DC feeds to everything, and with religious fervour insist it is the only safe way to power a TV and much else.
This mantra is repeated often, not for the benefit of posterity as you in this instance falsely claim, but to satisfy your DC ideology regardless of the wishes of others seeking good advice.
So the young man in Curry’s was right, and you were comprehensively wrong, read your own post.
Didn’t prevent you from making insulting remarks about others abilities or for Paul to gleefully join in with his childish ?? He didn’t spot your glaring error either.
I feel quite pleased that I have managed to navigate my way, with the help of others both here and at Curry’s, through the crap you both mislead me with.
The forum is a great source of information, thanks to you two it’s reliability has been severely dented, let’s hope in the future nobody else is foolish enough to follow your advice.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Totally insane. The TV is clearly 19V DC, that's what powers it. The fact that the 19V DC comes from a "power brick" that converts an AC current to DC doesn't change the FACT that it's a DC device.

This thread has stooped to new levels, even for PBO.

 

[lustyd]

My call to Curry’s was the result of a message from you that the model selected was run on 19v and was NOT mains powered (my caps) #29
Which of course is the opposite of the truth.

It runs on DC, the photo of the rear very clearly says DC IN and does not have an AC socket. If you connect 240V AC to this TV directly it will catch on fire, you need to use the 19V AC/DC adapter. The specs on the LG page clearly state 19V DC LG 23.6'' Smart HD Ready LED TV Monitor | LG UK page 12 of the manual gives details of the 19V DC adapter included in the box https://gscs-b2c.lge.com/downloadFile?fileId=9iOJpvQNfyYcfyylJsBw

Looking on the site the rear of the set has various fittings meaningless to me, and probably the average sales person.

The markings "DC IN" are meaningless to you? You earlier claimed to have rewired your boat. I suggest you get a pro in to check it's safe before returning on board if those markings are meaningless to you.

The problem arises from both yours and Paul’s obsession with DC feeds to everything

Boats are DC powered, it's perfectly reasonable to use that DC power to power things. They also have a finite supply of power, so it's also reasonable to not double the consumption of devices which will be left on for many hours. If you use them they can also become rather wet, a state not suited to 240V AC. Earlier in the thread you suggested that DC powered TVs were more expensive and less full featured than normal TVs like the one you bought, we were highlighting that DC TVs are actually very common, and the one you bought is one of them. Paul actually spends a great deal of effort helping people with AC on boats in his free time for scenarios which cannot use DC power. This is not one of those scenarios because the TV is DC powered.

You clearly seem to be looking for a fight rather than information so let's call it a day there.

 

[Moodysailor]

I don't want to wade into the "who said what to who" issue, but from a purely engineering perspective, it makes sense to try and have your consumers on the same power type as the source. It goes without saying that for DC there are limitations at each end of the spectrum, I am referring to Pareto's principle (the middle 80%). For clarity, I have assumed in this case we have a vessel that has a system voltage of 12VDC, and does not have a generator for AC.

If a transformer (inverter) is matched to the load, it's efficiency may be around 95%, so assuming this is the case, by converting from DC to AC, then from AC to DC again would induce losses of 10% overall (5% each time). Cable runs and parasitic losses (such as insufficient cooling of the transformer) could add another 5-10% to this. If the initial DC to AC transformer is not matched to the loads, the losses can be far greater (down to 55%), but we'll leave that out for simplicity. The power transformer that is supplied with the consumer will be matched to the load, so we can assume a high level of efficiency there.

The way I see it, all are right, in their own context. I admit that the setup described above is not the way I would personally go about it, but assuming there is sufficient power reserve to account for the losses (assume 20%) then there is certainly no issue. But those who mention the most efficient way to run a consumer are also correct, as there is a "free" 10-20% of DC power capacity just being lost to heat.

It's another of those cases where we are all free to choose our own path, and free to hold opinion regarding others decisions as none or us are right, and none are wrong. Hopefully someone reading this thread in future will glean all of the useful information and make up their own mind. In that time, there may well be a new widget or gadget out that has even greater efficiency, in which case - ignore everything I've just written!

For posterity and for anyone reading for advice, my own personal preference (and I appreciate everyone else's - I am not telling anyone what to do) would have been to match the consumer voltage to the vessel system, or lower. The reason is that a DC step-up puck (12-19V) also has some losses (nothing comes for free), so this partially negates the DC-AC/AC-DC conversion. If I had a 24V system (as we do now), then a 19VDC consumer would be great as a step-down transformer would create hardly any losses and would be a nice integration. In this case, my own choice would have been a consumer that can take a 12-14V input directly on a 12V system. It's horses for courses....

 

[[185615]]

I made it perfectly clear that TV sets and their ins and outs are totally new to me, the reason why I asked here initially which would be best. By best I meant in a marine environment, was there any I should be on the look out for, as I made it perfectly clear I had never fitted one before.
Quite new to me, unlike navigation systems, fridges-and freezers, battery management systems, upgraded an alternator to higher output, had help here in correct selection and wiring of it, lighting systems both internal and external and the day to day maintenance.
My expertise is not at question here, ONLY YOURS, your contention which you refuse to admit was WRONG that the model I had chosen was NOT mains powered, despite having a power cable with a 13 amp 3 pin plug dangling from it?? along with assurances from the supplier it was mains powered, if not why on earth is fitted with a mains cable. Nowhere in the sets comprehensive description is DC powering even mentioned, only DC zealots like yourself who search photographs for evidence it can, NORMAL individuals are primarily concerned with its quality of performance.
I had selected this model following the receipt if good advice from others here, as to size suitability, make, and picture quality, the important concerns any sensible person has when purchasing a TV.
Several here indicated they used inverters to power them which was my favoured method was intending
How desperate you are to cling to this ‘DC input’ to excuse yourself for giving wrong and misleading information, and as an additional cover up you question both my knowledge and expertise of DC systems.
It was not me who pointed out that 12v sets were more expensive and less featured but another worth listening too contributor who has more intelligence on matters TV than myself.
In the interests of posterity, which you expressed some concern about previously as to accuracy, that is when others in two years or so time are searching this thread as you pointed out for similar information to myself, they are also not mislead.
Would you now retract your contention that the model concerned is not mains powered?
It may very well run on 19v DC by the manufacturers internal arrangements, but to any simple soul searching her would be certainly mislead by both yourself and fellow DC ideologue Paul that it is mains powered, or is that retraction of fact impossible for the pair of you.
As to ending this thread I would be delighted to do so following your correction with immediate effect.

 

[lustyd]

Would you now retract your contention that the model concerned is not mains powered?

No, we won't retract that since it has been amply demonstrated that the TV set is a DC powered device with a DC supply.

 

[[185615]]

I don't want to wade into the "who said what to who" issue, but from a purely engineering perspective, it makes sense to try and have your consumers on the same power type as the source. It goes without saying that for DC there are limitations at each end of the spectrum, I am referring to Pareto's principle (the middle 80%). For clarity, I have assumed in this case we have a vessel that has a system voltage of 12VDC, and does not have a generator for AC.

If a transformer (inverter) is matched to the load, it's efficiency may be around 95%, so assuming this is the case, by converting from DC to AC, then from AC to DC again would induce losses of 10% overall (5% each time). Cable runs and parasitic losses (such as insufficient cooling of the transformer) could add another 5-10% to this. If the initial DC to AC transformer is not matched to the loads, the losses can be far greater (down to 55%), but we'll leave that out for simplicity. The power transformer that is supplied with the consumer will be matched to the load, so we can assume a high level of efficiency there.

The way I see it, all are right, in their own context. I admit that the setup described above is not the way I would personally go about it, but assuming there is sufficient power reserve to account for the losses (assume 20%) then there is certainly no issue. But those who mention the most efficient way to run a consumer are also correct, as there is a "free" 10-20% of DC power capacity just being lost to heat.

It's another of those cases where we are all free to choose our own path, and free to hold opinion regarding others decisions as none or us are right, and none are wrong. Hopefully someone reading this thread in future will glean all of the useful information and make up their own mind. In that time, there may well be a new widget or gadget out that has even greater efficiency, in which case - ignore everything I've just written!

For posterity and for anyone reading for advice, my own personal preference (and I appreciate everyone else's - I am not telling anyone what to do) would have been to match the consumer voltage to the vessel system, or lower. The reason is that a DC step-up puck (12-19V) also has some losses (nothing comes for free), so this partially negates the DC-AC/AC-DC conversion. If I had a 24V system (as we do now), then a 19VDC consumer would be great as a step-down transformer would create hardly any losses and would be a nice integration. In this case, my own choice would have been a consumer that can take a 12-14V input directly on a 12V system. It's horses for courses....

Thank goodness for a proper perspective on this matter.
Your analysis is spot on which others can rely on.
You pays your money and takes your choice, I personally prefer the inverter DC to AC route, which is by the set converted back from AC to DC.
My only complaint is that I was incorrectly informed regarding a particular set was not mains powered, only by further investigation did I find it most certainly is and will run happily from my inverter.
I invested in an inverter not in isolation to DC supplies which are some 600Amp/h with very adequate charging provision.

 

[Moodysailor]

I am not trying to pick a fight, but if I can try to clarify one of your questions. You asked:

the model I had chosen was NOT mains powered, despite having a power cable with a 13 amp 3 pin plug dangling from it?? along with assurances from the supplier it was mains powered, if not why on earth is fitted with a mains cable. Nowhere in the sets comprehensive description is DC powering even mentioned

The reason for this is that because 240VAC is what comes out of our walls in our houses. Most small electronics run internally on DC, but because that is not available as an option from our power companies, they provide adaptors that convert the available power (240VAC) to the internal power of the set (19 VDC). Again, you are all right - the set you bought can, without modification, run on 240VAC power. But the others are also right that the internals of the TV run on 19VDC, so it would (with a minor amount of modification) be possible to run this from a DC source.

You are free to do whatever you like, and from sounds of it have a setup ready to go. I was just trying to clarify the technical differences.

 

[lustyd]

so it would (with a minor amount of modification) be possible to run this from a DC source.

ZERO modification, the TV set is 100% DC and has no means of getting AC into the box. The adapter is completely external to the set and at no time does AC power get anywhere near the TV set.

 

[Moodysailor]

ZERO modification, the TV set is 100% DC and has no means of getting AC into the box. The adapter is completely external to the set and at no time does AC power get anywhere near the TV set.

Again, not picking a fight. But, the power cable supplied with the TV would require cutting (or a new lead and plug made), and a 12-19VDC adaptor would be required.

So yes, you are 100% correct about the power into the TV - I was talking about external modifications. Apologies for not being clearer.

 

[lustyd]

No worries, I see what you're getting at. The supply also doesn't need modification any more than I need to modify my phone charger to charge from USB. The plug is a standard one so you'd simply use a different cable and leave the supply in the box since the TV is in fact powered by DC ?

 

[Moodysailor]

No worries, I see what you're getting at. The supply also doesn't need modification any more than I need to modify my phone charger to charge from USB. The plug is a standard one so you'd simply use a different cable and leave the supply in the box since the TV is in fact powered by DC ?

I'm with you 100% - that's exactly what I did for my laptop on board

For anyone looking in future, here is the 12-19VDC adaptor I purchased. Still going strong a year later, and zero issues. Link

 

[[185615]]

No, we won't retract that since it has been amply demonstrated that the TV set is a DC powered device with a DC supply.

Post #29
“THIS MODEL RUNS ON 19v

I am not trying to pick a fight, but if I can try to clarify one of your questions. You asked:



The reason for this is that because 240VAC is what comes out of our walls in our houses. Most small electronics run internally on DC, but because that is not available as an option from our power companies, they provide adaptors that convert the available power (240VAC) to the internal power of the set (19 VDC). Again, you are all right - the set you bought can, without modification, run on 240VAC power. But the others are also right that the internals of the TV run on 19VDC, so it would (with a minor amount of modification) be possible to run this from a DC source.

You are free to do whatever you like, and from sounds of it have a setup ready to go. I was just trying to clarify the technical differences.

You clearly did clarify the technical differences correctly.
I maintain post #29 was wholly misleading claiming that the model concerned was not mains powered which it clearly is. Whether it can be powered by DC also is irrelevant, a technical matter outside of my scope of enquiry as to which to purchase having previously made it clear as to my existing power supplies.
My enquiry was high jacked by two DC ideologues one of which refuses to retract a bald misleading contention.
My initial enquiry was not of a technical nature but simply to establish what was best based on others experience as to TV use aboard.

 

[mrangry]

I'm with you 100% - that's exactly what I did for my laptop on board

For anyone looking in future, here is the 12-19VDC adaptor I purchased. Still going strong a year later, and zero issues. Link

This has got me wondering as I would not have considered the need for this adaptor before now. Would a 19v appliance like say a tv work if powered off a 12v supply

 

[lustyd]

This has got me wondering as I would not have considered the need for this adaptor before now. Would a 19v appliance like say a tv work if powered off a 12v supply

Internally it probably runs on 5V after a step down, but yes I'd definitely pop in a 12-19V adapter. For my Teltonika router, which can run on a wide range of voltages, I step up from 12V to 24V because it will live up the mast and the higher voltage allows less loss in the long cable. It certainly ran happily on 12V too when next to the switch panel.
I think we're going to have to leave Cleanhull ranting away into their mains powered phone or laptop though as the concept of a DC TV seems a stretch too far

 

[Moodysailor]

This has got me wondering as I would not have considered the need for this adaptor before now. Would a 19v appliance like say a tv work if powered off a 12v supply

I don't know, possibly but I wouldn't take the risk. The voltage is stated for a reason so I would align with that personally.

 

[[185615]]

For posterity which now seems to be totally and conveniently forgotten for which previously I was accused of not taking into account, the set concerned is mains powered, if not why would a manufacturer fit a mains cable and three pin plug?
#29 is therefore totally incorrect
Refusal to even qualify or admit that it IS a mains powered set, something any prospect purchaser certainly needs to know, regardless of any alternative such as DC.
Therefore such a bald misleading statement should and must be withdrawn.

 

[lustyd]

The three pin plug powers the DC adapter which supplies power to the device. The device is DC powered.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Interesting thread as I will be fitting a monitor on a bulkhead. It increases ease of installation and safety knowing that it is common to have a DC power option on these TV, Monitor devices. I assumed that DC would be a specialist product and 240v a standard, but it makes sense now why DC standard is built in.

As usual excellent advice offered from the forum members.