Best seakeeping boat 40-48feet

[Portofino]

Perfect conditions to try an Itama

Well TBH I have been out in those conditions.Thx to DAW for posting a pick .
Planned down or cross diagonal wind down stream , but initially having to do a bit of up wind to round a cap , or enter a sheltered bay = anchor up .I know U.K. boaters won’t get it but Med marina based will .This is with 30 or 35 degree air temps in a concrete marina , ( ok with shore power + AC ) there is only so much sitting around you can do .Well i can .

I ve been to Fonttvieille many times and in this case although it’s W I would bug out to Cap Ferat ….because I can .
Planing low down @ 20;- 22 knots , full flap .Up wind .


Further more if it was my home port enjoy an uneventful trip down heading E back to Monaco .Down wind flap minus 2 and normal cruise.

Those were my sea trail conditions btw .

I have been out same white horses ( read what I’ve already said posted ) but with deeper valleys so i guess some swell , the boat disappearing …imho dangerous because I can’t see and nether can others , our superstructure is none existent.Unlike that boat in the pics .

Having said all this I have limits of course .Like the Op spent 20 yrs yacht racing ( N sea in the winter ) …..erh mostly Boys trips a million mile away for the Op s and indeed my current ( family ) boating situation.

Fun varies .
Boating with wife’s ( or any woman ) kinda changes things ……a lot ! You have to tone it down .

 

[jfm]

Nice pics DAW. That's a 5 gusting 6, with 100+nm of fetch (and no tide obvs) and in this case as you know there was a mistral plus scorching land/cooler sea creating a sea breeze element too. Your pic is today (Tuesday) and I was out in that same weather Saturday - as you'll know it was exactly as in your picture. I was in a 8.2m very deep vee RIB heading straight into a head sea for 8 miles (villefranche to Antibes), deliberately because I wanted to try out a new boat in that weather (with 2 hard core guys on board) and I knew that for the second part of the trip I'd get a little shelter from the Cap D'antibes. I was stuck at about 12 knots for the early part of the trip, when the sea state was as per your picture. Very safe, but quite uncomfortable.

To answer OP's question, no 40-48 sports cruiser would be anywhere near comfortable in a head sea in that weather but most could handle it safely if for some reason it had to. Even an 80 or 100 footer would not be much fun. but could easily cope. Of course, in the 180 degree direction, following sea, many 40-48 footers with a skilled helms person would be fine and I'd prefer a fast boat to an 8 knotter so I could choose my speed versus the wave speed. For sure an Itama 42 or 45 could not do 20+ knots into that weather without significant damage to boat/crew; it would be stuck at 12-15. Because deep vee is useful in waves but isn't transformational. Of course an Itama can run nicely into head seas that would stop other boats, but it can't run into the head seas in DAW's pictures (force 5 gusting 6, with infinite fetch). The RIB I was in had as much Vee as any Itama.

 

[DAW]

Just to complete the picture, here is the Predictwind forecast for 14h00 on Tuesday when the pictures were taken. It shows a moderate strength mistral with the usual acceleration of wind and waves as they get compressed between the CdA and the north of Corsica ...

 

[DAW]

To answer OP's question, no 40-48 sports cruiser would be anywhere near comfortable in a head sea in that weather but most could handle it safely if for some reason it had to. Even an 80 or 100 footer would not be much fun. but could easily cope. Of course, in the 180 degree direction, following sea, many 40-48 footers with a skilled helms person would be fine and I'd prefer a fast boat to an 8 knotter so I could choose my speed versus the wave speed. For sure an Itama 42 or 45 could not do 20+ knots into that weather without significant damage to boat/crew; it would be stuck at 12-15. Because deep vee is useful in waves but isn't transformational. Of course an Itama can run nicely into head seas that would stop other boats, but it can't run into the head seas in DAW's pictures (force 5 gusting 6, with infinite fetch). The RIB I was in had as much Vee as any Itama.

100% agree with this!!!

I've made the journey from Porquerolles/St Tropez back to Monaco in conditions like these too many times and can say from experience that 12-15 knots is a comfortable and safe maximum speed in a 40-60ft sports cruiser, whether travelling with or against the seas. Any faster and you risk launching yourself off the top of the bigger waves with the potential for significant damage. Deep vee and/or fin stabilisers make a huge difference to comfort as they can virtually eliminate the rolling, but you still get the pitching motion and can't defy the laws of physics.

 

[MapisM]

For sure an Itama 42 or 45 could not do 20+ knots into that weather without significant damage to boat/crew; it would be stuck at 12-15.

Amen to that.
Precisely what I said in 2nd para of post #24.

 

[Portofino]

- I don't expect to change John's and MapishM s or anybody else’s mind at this point, but if in doubt please do some research - a very good starting point would be to have a test drive of a true deep V in the conditions you expect to get caught out in .

 

[MapisM]

I don't expect to change John's and MapishM s or anybody else’s mind at this point

That's a memorable result, considering that you kept trying for longer than I can remember...

 

[Bouba]

I'm confused, 'cause you said boats under current production, in your OP.
But if you're willing to consider also used boats, I struggle with the logic of an arbitrary limit to 10yo.
I mean, I appreciate why you wouldn't want to look at boats too "old", but some pre-global financial crisis boats were better built than some brand new ones, in many ways.

Of course, shopping for them is harder because conditions can stretch anywhere from excellent, down to "don't touch with a bargepole".
Just to confirm that I put my money where my mouth is, I looked at almost 80 boats before buying my current one, and my restrictions were VERY wide: flybridge, ballpark size 60', quality builder, fiberglass construction.
And I didn't give myself ANY age limit.
Eventually, the size of the boats I considered was from 52 to 65 feet, which is a pretty large range, but the age differences were even larger, stretching more than 20 years, from the late 80s onward.
And I can tell you that some of the older boats were MUCH more worth considering than some of the newer ones.

Anyhow, if you go down the used route, it's pointless to suggest some particular models.
In fact, your search is bound to be based on what is available at any given moment.
Good luck.

Your boat search was legendary and can’t be easily repeated by mere mortals..if I recall you were accompanied by the owner of the boat factory, the boat’s chief designer and the chief mechanic for MAN…then you put the boat in a shed and refitted her through out.
For ordinary people buying new or nearly new is the closest we can get

 

[MapisM]

Gotta admit that for looking at almost 80 boats you must have a lot of time/patience, and also enjoy the process at least to some extent.
But I wasn't suggesting it's necessary - I only mentioned my experience becase on that basis I can safely suggest that establishing an arbitrary age limit is pointless, and there are only three ways to evaluate used boats: conditions, conditions, conditions.
WIthin reason, of course; for instance, very old boats were mostly built in timber.
Which might be fine, if that's your thing - pros and cons, as always!

 

[piratos]

I only mentioned my experience becase on that basis I can safely suggest that establishing an arbitrary age limit is pointless, and there are only three ways to evaluate used boats: conditions, conditions, conditions.
WIthin reason, of course; for instance, very old boats were mostly built in timber.
Which might be fine, if that's your thing - pros and cons, as always!

How true. Buying a boat- and specially secondhand - you always have to compromise somewhere. I have for some time been negotiating a boat and hardly come forward (missing service documentation etc) and then saw a sister in Italy which i went to view. The poor condition could have given a huge price reduction (broker did agree) but worst for me was that present owner (12 years) had clocked „Zero“ hours during his ownership. For me waste of time and money to view - but had a few nice days in Italy

 

[marcochi76]

Although not new and above 50ft, the Princess V52 may be of interest.

There is V52 on sale right on the same pontoon here in St Tropez. That’s a lot of a boat!

 

[EricJ]

There is V52 on sale right on the same pontoon here in St Tropez. That’s a lot of a boat!

Yes, on the pontoon it looks quite tall. Possibly one of the first Princess models with the higher topsides.

 

[marcochi76]

There is also a wonderful Pershing 5X on sale.
But with IPS.
Anybody has any feedback how it navigates compared to older shaft Pershings?

 

[mcanderson]

And I see the V52 in St Tropez has just had a big price reduction.

 

[Nick1150]

It's amazing how much you can write without saying anything, PF.
Just look at how long your post #16 is, entirely dedicated to Itamas achievements in big seas.
Including a hurricane tail in Naples, FFS: an event so surrealistic that it's only good for a laugh.
All of that, with no mention at all of what you exactly mean by "big head seas".

I'll tell you what.
In the Med, a fresh, sustained F5/F6 is enough to build up 2.5m short breaking waves, in a matter of a few hours.
Now, with that sea right on your nose, you will NEVER be able to keep 22/24 knots with your boat, period.
Or with any other 40' pleasure boat, for that matter.
And not because the boat can't handle that, but because YOU (as well as anyone else onboard) can't.
Why do you think Buzzi fitted his 60' SAR boat "Ognitempo" (which can rung rings around any Itamas in any weather) with 4 points harness bolstered seats, mounted on shock absorbers?
And mind, true sailors would laugh if you'd call "big" a F5/6 sea.

So, can you describe what exactly you mean by these worst case conditions of "big head seas" you cruised in at 22/24 knots?
Maybe F10, with waves as high as your boat is long, while boiling water to fix some pasta, while you were at that?!?

WOW it feels like this is my post!
Dear MapisM, I cannot agree more!
In the Aegean Sea that I am located, believe me, we pray for F4/F5 to go out..... it is 13/07/2024 today and I haven't even moved my boat for 2 weeks because winds are never below F6/F7 here!

 

[Nick1150]

Waking up this thread......

And to make it clear, some of us (if not all) do not seek 2-3 meters waves anymore.... I am guilty, back in the old days, I did.... not anymore.

I can relate with the founder of this thread... And after 95 posts, correct me if I am wrong, the question was:

Is there any 40 to 48 feet, shaft drive, sport cruiser (wife-family-dog oriented, cmon you know what he means) that can handle seas better than others?

And when I say wife-family-dog oriented, I include the usual water maker, ice maker, AC, wifi, hifi, fbi, csi, and rest of crap that we need to have to make them happy.....

I suppose the answer is obviously, not itama, otam, and rest military like hulls which I agree do the job as far as sea keeping is concerned but are actually day or weekend boats.

...

 

[marcochi76]

Hello Nick,
I am the OP.

This is the result of my research and what could be, IMHO, a good compromise between sea-keeping and comfort:

-Rizzardi Incredible 45, 48in, InFive: it is the evolution of the same boat.
-Pershing 50 (preferably on shaft).
-Princess V52: this is the last 50foot Princess on shaft. Any more recent model is on IPS.

I like a lot the Itama 45s, but in terms of interior volume, it would be a step back from my V39, and wife would not appreciate.

Maybe you've come to additional suggestions?

 

[marcochi76]

and just to give an example of a typical condition that forces me to slow down with my V39:
this last Saturday wife wanted to go to Saint Tropez (it is a 40miles trip from my harbour in Beaulieu sur Mer).
Forecast was not ideal, with 15knots wind on the nose.
The beginning of my trip was fine, but as I reached out to Cap d'Antibes, the wind increased (I think it was a minimum of 20knots, as the bay in front of Cannes was full of kitesurfers) and thus I had to navigate 20 miles with waves of 80-100cm on the nose.
It was not the size of the waves that were annoying, but the fact that they were short and moving exactly against my direction.
I thus had to slow down to displacement (8-9 knots)...a pain.
I can tell you that it was a constant shower above the boat. I was happy to have a closed hard top.
(ps: my electric horn died because of too much water...)
As soon as I passed the Esterel, I could change cap and take the waves at approx 30 degrees. That allowed me to go on plane, with tabs fully down, at approx 16knots, with terrible efficiency. But at least I was moving faster.

 

[Portofino]

The older “Amarti “ Itama have grater interior volumes then the newer Ferretti.
The 42/48 has a 4.2 M beam and you are looking at 18000 kg + liquids so 2 x displacement of your v39 .
The 46 ( twin MAN v8 s ) 4.4 something? Beam and over twenty tons .

Agreed the 45 S is basically a newer version of the older 38 around iirc 9 tons running on 8 L MAN s or even smaller Cummins .

A lot of Amarti have been refitted bringing them up to date .

We would have no issues in the sea state described in post # 98 .NONE what so ever .
Indeed to faster you run ( open no HT ) the wave splash by the wind , water hitting the hull starts about mid ships sideways .None enters the cockpit it a dry ride .The very worst the rear of the sun pads gets occasionally wet .

As far as “ hotel “ post 96 , Itama have all the accruements of luxury living .Indeed top (read expensive + reliable ) components. The first owners have taken the hit on depreciation. We traveled far and wide with a dog and spent 2-3 weeks at a time on it .It’s the seakeeping , the very basics of fast planning boat design which enabled this .

Take a look at a Itama 50 for eg .

The only downside I came across was the consumption relative to similar size boats because the deeper V s have more drag .
So take a typical Prinny V 48 with 7 L or D 9 Volvos and pitch that against my 42/48 with 12.8 L MAM s inline6 s or Indeed the 46 with either 15 L MAN or MTU V 8s .

A figure cruising at 28 knots gobbling 180 L / hr to St Trop in season I was willing to accept .

But the Ops got it right , realised his current boat as I did with my Porto 35 didn’t live up to the marketing hype in the real world everyday usage pattern . SNAP !

 

[Shifty]

Having read a lot of this thread this is my pennies worth.
We have a 48ft CAT A planing hull,,albeit an older boat, a Dutch built Atlantic on shafts.

It’s a super handling boat but having got caught out in an easterly coming out of Holland heading South last Sunday, it was
a strong reminder that what ever size/design hull, ltama included, no way would you have stayed on the plane and it’s just a question of making for the nearest port of shelter.

I’ve been boating for 40 years and sometimes we do get it wrong and the old adage that I’d rather be on the shore looking at the sea rather be on the boat wishing I was ashore certainly applied.

Yes get a good sea worthy vessel but never forgot the power of the waves.