Best seakeeping boat 40-48feet

[EricJ]

I would take a look at the Marex 420 when it comes out next year. Available with V drives (next to IPS and outdrives). Other Marex models had good reports on seakeeping.
Although not new and above 50ft, the Princess V52 may be of interest.

 

[[2574]]

I'd take a Nelson 40 out in a hurricane.

I wouldn't, I'd go to the pub and sit by the fire.

 

[piratos]

Hello all,
just curious, what do you think are the best seakeeping boats, within those currently under production.
It is often being said that today's boat are designed with confort and space in mind, and less about seakeeping capabilities.
So, between all current offers, what stands out?
I mean pleasure luxury boats, not special military or rescue machines...

Thanks

Sorry but would say it does not exist. On the other hand what do you mean with seakeeping?? Able to keep speed in a chop or battle heavy seas (and with heavy seas I dont mean seas where Itama cruise with 30 knots but really heavy sea) ???

 

[MapisM]

We might drop to 22/24 knots still planing in big head seas

It's amazing how much you can write without saying anything, PF.
Just look at how long your post #16 is, entirely dedicated to Itamas achievements in big seas.
Including a hurricane tail in Naples, FFS: an event so surrealistic that it's only good for a laugh.
All of that, with no mention at all of what you exactly mean by "big head seas".

I'll tell you what.
In the Med, a fresh, sustained F5/F6 is enough to build up 2.5m short breaking waves, in a matter of a few hours.
Now, with that sea right on your nose, you will NEVER be able to keep 22/24 knots with your boat, period.
Or with any other 40' pleasure boat, for that matter.
And not because the boat can't handle that, but because YOU (as well as anyone else onboard) can't.
Why do you think Buzzi fitted his 60' SAR boat "Ognitempo" (which can rung rings around any Itamas in any weather) with 4 points harness bolstered seats, mounted on shock absorbers?
And mind, true sailors would laugh if you'd call "big" a F5/6 sea.

So, can you describe what exactly you mean by these worst case conditions of "big head seas" you cruised in at 22/24 knots?
Maybe F10, with waves as high as your boat is long, while boiling water to fix some pasta, while you were at that?!?

 

[QBhoy]

Likely bias…but at the 40ft size…I can’t think of anything much more capable all round…better than a princess 385 hull, with two relentlessly powerful tamd61a’s. Incredible hull…that will technically plane..but also has a keel on her. 9 knots at 1100 rpm all day, any day…but will see touching 30 knots..should she be asked to. What a machine.

 

[penfold]

If I was thinking about a mid-40ft non-f/b boat for CdA (I’m not, btw) I would definitely look at a Mochi Dolphin 44.

View attachment 160480

"Not the salmon mousse!"

 

[Portofino]

It's amazing how much you can write without saying anything, PF.
Just look at how long your post #16 is, entirely dedicated to Itamas achievements in big seas.
Including a hurricane tail in Naples, FFS: an event so surrealistic that it's only good for a laugh.
All of that, with no mention at all of what you exactly mean by "big head seas".

I'll tell you what.
In the Med, a fresh, sustained F5/F6 is enough to build up 2.5m short breaking waves, in a matter of a few hours.
Now, with that sea right on your nose, you will NEVER be able to keep 22/24 knots with your boat, period.
Or with any other 40' pleasure boat, for that matter.
And not because the boat can't handle that, but because YOU (as well as anyone else onboard) can't.
Why do you think Buzzi fitted his 60' SAR boat "Ognitempo" (which can rung rings around any Itamas in any weather) with 4 points harness bolstered seats, mounted on shock absorbers?
And mind, true sailors would laugh if you'd call "big" a F5/6 sea.

So, can you describe what exactly you mean by these worst case conditions of "big head seas" you cruised in at 22/24 knots?
Maybe F10, with waves as high as your boat is long, while boiling water to fix some pasta, while you were at that?!?

The answers i have given are to meet the brief * in posts # 1 + 10 .

I really know from identical experience a true deep V will work better for him in the conditions and expected usage he described .He will be able to stay up on the plane comfortably , while other Med oriented sports boats in the same like for like size range will be dropping down to D in the same sea states .

Which is what he’s enquiring, asking about ,the thread purpose.

Its is possible to achieve that brief .

Further more in sea states when ALL the prospects mentioned thus far ( well the one s meeting the brief = planning boats ) are planning the true deep V s will afford a hugely noticeable smoother ride , less fatigue if you like ……as well as a faster cruise which is a manifestation of Magnum / Itama / Riva 44 / Rizzardi engine room machinery.

Which might come in handy on the Ops proposed Monaco - Portofino run and back , having in your back pocket the ability to cover 100 miles across open sea every 3 hrs is addictive……you should try it one day erh in comfort don’t forget !



* Brief excludes SAR btw .

By way of offering something materialistically constructive to this thread , as opposed to what appears to be sniping from the side lines ……What do you actually propose boat wise that sits in the Ops brief ?

 

[marcochi76]

Hi All,
thanks for your replies.
I try to define a little better what I meant by "best seakeeper".
My usage scenario is very simple. I do not expect to navigate with waves of 3m and more.
I hope to never find myself in that situation.

But, as mentioned during the discussions, the wind during the summer in the Med can quickly built short annoying waves of 1 to 2m.
And I want to be confortable and safe in those conditions.

I have limited experience. This is my 3rd season with my boat. But I find myself navigating more and more.
We usually do +100h engine per season, resulting in + 1000 nm.
This summer season 2023 we have already run 500nm. And season has just started.
Our typical scenario is 3-4 days WeekEnd trip from Beaulieu to St Stropez and back, or to Portofino, or to Calvi.

For example: tomorrow I "have to" go to Portofino / Santa Margherita.
The weather next week will be very unstable.
The forecast announces strong winds starting Monday afternoon.
I might be able to arrive at destination with 1-1.5m head waves. But I should be ready to meet waves +2m.

My experience:
in case of following seas: I can easily plane over the waves up to 1m, more than that I start to reduce speed progressively to avoid running down the waves too fast (with all risks connected).
With 2m following sea, I definitely try to remain on the back of the wave. But that's not easy: sometimes my D speed is too slow for that. But if I accelerate I find myself in the "avoidable" range when the boat is "pointing to sky" with the engine super-stressed.

in the case of head sea:
if it is an old sea with long waves: the boat doesn't slam. I just need to find the proper speed to not jump off.
if it is a new sea created by the wind: that's the annoying situation. Waves are short, steep, they run fast against the boat (and I run fast against them).
Up to 0.8m, I can still run on plane with the flaps down to use at max the V entry of the hull.
But more than that, I definitely have to reduce speed, and go to D.
Sometimes I prefer to go to D even with smaller waves, but stronger wind, as the waves are shorter/irregular and there is always one wave over 10 slamming the hull.

What I find "annoying" with my boat is the huge transition from D to Plane.
It is either 9knots max or +24.
So maybe my quest for best seakeeping boat is also a boat capable of running "in between" D and plane at proper speeds.
So to have more flexibility.

PLease take all the above with a grain of salt, as I repeat I am an unexperienced boater.

PS: concerning Porto's suggestion. I love Itamas. The new 45RS with the updated internal layout is wonderful. But wife prefered the "yacht style" of our V39.

 

[oldgit]

.....and I always thought that boating was a relatively harmless hobby and something to be enjoyed with your crew (friends if you have any left) and a salve to the trials of life.
Had no idea it was supposed to be somekind of preparation for joining the SAS or designed to have RNLI crew trembling in their yellow wellies and hoping their next call out does not exposed them to the appalling sea conditions apparently normal in the "Duck Pond"
aka " The Med"
My real interest is how do you keep the wine flutes on the table when you go boating...superglue ?

 

[Chris H]

We went from Beaulieu to Sanremo yesterday, in my limited experience, I would call it rough !
not many boats out there and those that were were D speed, a princess and a couple of Fairlines spotted, we kept a safe 25knots all the way, no slamming and wifey fell asleep on the sun pad

 

[Portofino]

With the right hull and machinery there isn’t a “ in between / annoying “ range .

Part of your discovered “annoying “is what you eluded to earlier in post # “ fact that they all come with stupid DPH or IPS..“

Get rid of those .

You are a smart guy to realise where you are after 3 season s if you don’t mind me saying .

You see lower Hp stern drives tend to be fitted to shallower dead rise sport cruisers ( do you hear that MapishM- sports cruisers before you go off and tell us Buzzi fitted them to a 24 degree race boat with can’f forget suspension seats ) .

Where as the boats I mentioned are not flat at the stern and carry a continuous V getting finer to the bow .It takes Hp to shift and lift them .They have a tiny hump hardly noticeable say 12/ 14 knots then just power up in a smooth linear fashion .Theres no real ” annoying “ in “between” range .

So what sets the speed then ?

You just go by two things the bow drop and basically the engine rpm , put them where they like it .
The absolute slowest ( approach the shore a few miles out ) is 16 knots 1400 rpm ….I think it’s the cusp of turbo spooling .But we never cruise there ,

This brings me around to another point that’s missing from your good post #28 .

You can in a deep V speed up in big seas , those you mean in your post .Counterintuitively going faster improves the ride smooths it out , you get more dynamic stability, grip less movement = more comfy ride .That’s where I got that 22 knot figure from proper planning .Remember 2-3 x the weight of what you have now helps .

We never have an issue down wind in big seas beating the waves going down into the tough and up and over ,
I have surfed back at 30 knots from Porquerolles in a mistral all the way to Cannes where as you know the wind peters out .Flap up to minus 2 never touched the sticks , just a pleasant roll a coaster ride .The only proviso is visibility , you can’t see much in the bottom of a trough and I guess others can’t see you and at 27/32 knots feels a bit hairy .

Not mentioned yet , we have touched on true deep V definition, but let’s talk bow shape .
I mean the bow shape above the WL .It needs some volume , so it’s doesn’t stuff into a wave , some flair to deflect said waves .If you look very carefully at Itama / Magnum and the others they carry the deck width well forward , so you can charge on in following sea without the risk of broaching .
Forgive me folks if I am taking all this too many steps forward ?
Once in 12 L upwards Diesel territory they take those kind of seas you describe in there stride , you just set the sticks and leave alone .

 

[Chris H]

.....and I always thought that boating was a relatively harmless hobby and something to be enjoyed with your crew (friends if you have any left) and a salve to the trials of life.
Had no idea it was supposed to be somekind of preparation for joining the SAS or designed to have RNLI crew trembling in their yellow wellies and hoping their next call out does not exposed them to the appalling sea conditions apparently normal in the "Duck Pond"
aka " The Med"
My real interest is how do you keep the wine flutes on the table when you go boating...superglue ?

Glasses with magnetic bottoms onto a sticky magnetic beer mat…..

 

[Portofino]

We went from Beaulieu to Sanremo yesterday, in my limited experience, I would call it rough !
not many boats out there and those that were were D speed, a princess and a couple off airlines spotted, we kept a safe 25knots all the way, no slamming and wifey fell asleep on the sun pad

Yep Pershing are right up there .
Pity the current intro is a 50 .

I actually quite enjoy a bit of a sea when others are in port . Now !

 

[marcochi76]

We went from Beaulieu to Sanremo yesterday, in my limited experience, I would call it rough !
not many boats out there and those that were were D speed, a princess and a couple of Fairlines spotted, we kept a safe 25knots all the way, no slamming and wifey fell asleep on the sun pad

I had no doubt about your Pershing!
And yes, yesterday’s conditions is what defines my upper limit I think.

But here we go:
Pershing 5x now comes with IPS and thus obviously a flatter aft hull.
Does it still maintain the wonderful seakeeping of your previous Pershings?

 

[Portofino]

.....and I always thought that boating was a relatively harmless hobby and something to be enjoyed with your crew (friends if you have any left) and a salve to the trials of life.
Had no idea it was supposed to be somekind of preparation for joining the SAS or designed to have RNLI crew trembling in their yellow wellies and hoping their next call out does not exposed them to the appalling sea conditions apparently normal in the "Duck Pond"
aka " The Med"
My real interest is how do you keep the wine flutes on the table when you go boating...superglue ?

The wind changes .
Land heats up and there’s mountains tumbling down to the coast .
Plus where we are SoF / Liguria a long fetch = so it can swell up .

Good news it drops off about 1 hr before dark .

So many nice places to it’s just too tempting not to have a crack at them .

I sold my Porto with 24000 miles on the log .I did the majority. Exactly like the Op inc having to annoyingly D speed it .

 

[Portofino]

I had no doubt about your Pershing!
And yes, yesterday’s conditions is what defines my upper limit I think.

But here we go:
Pershing 5x now comes with IPS and thus obviously a flatter aft hull.
Does it still maintain the wonderful seakeeping of your previous Pershings?

I haven’t checked it’s layout , but i wonder if they have gone for max interior vol ?
Not cos they particularly wanted to drop shafts / Surface drives , cos sales were being taken by the competition .

This is where you began post #1 “It is often being said that today's boat are designed with confort and space in mind, and less about seakeeping capabilities. ”

Ferretti have Riva and Itama so I guess it’s just incremental pack shuffling and the P50 s has taken this hit .Pity .

 

[NBs]

Hi,

I think it's not only about the boat, but also about your experience and skills.

A seaworthy boat in unskilled hands to choose the best lines, speeds, etc. When the waves are high, a boat alone does not make the trip safe, but seamanship skills and an understanding of how the boat behaves in different waves and speeds.

I think the boats usually last beterr than the crew high seas cruising.

NBs

 

[marcochi76]

Hi,

I think it's not only about the boat, but also about your experience and skills.

A seaworthy boat in unskilled hands to choose the best lines, speeds, etc. When the waves are high, a boat alone does not make the trip safe, but seamanship skills and an understanding of how the boat behaves in different waves and speeds.

I think the boats usually last beterr than the crew high seas cruising.

NBs

Totally agree!
I find myself improving every time.
And I always remind myself what John Boyle did with the same boat !!!

 

[julians]

Hi,

I think it's not only about the boat, but also about your experience and skills.

A seaworthy boat in unskilled hands to choose the best lines, speeds, etc. When the waves are high, a boat alone does not make the trip safe, but seamanship skills and an understanding of how the boat behaves in different waves and speeds.

I think the boats usually last beterr than the crew high seas cruising.

NBs

I was going to ask a similar question.

There are a few comments in this thread about slowing down because I don't want to damage the boat.

Do people think it's possible to damage the boat through not slowing down? I mean of course you may break some crockery if you haven't stowed it,but could you actually damage the boat itself? I'd always assumed the boat could take anything you can take and more, and therefore you'd slow down to avoid damaging yourself before boat damage occured,but then I have read surveyors comments about checking for stress fractures due to hard running in head seas on certain boat models,so I guess it's more common than I thought.

To keep on topic, I'm broadly with portofino on this one, within the realms of your question IE when you say big seas you're not talking big seas in the absolute sense,ie not mid Atlantic winter storm big,just big in terms of a summer afternoon in the med, then something with a proper deep v should suffice. There must be loads of boats out there that meet the bill, I know axopar have just released a 45 footer,if that goes as well as their smaller boats then it should be decent,not sure it meets the luxury sports cruiser definition though.

Some of the big ribs will also be good in a sea,but again not sure they meet the sports cruiser brief though.

Various American centre consoles would prob work well , Boston whalers etc,but again not sports cruiser style.

 

[marcochi76]

I was going to ask a similar question.

There are a few comments in this thread about slowing down because I don't want to damage the boat.

Do people think it's possible to damage the boat through not slowing down? I

Yes, probably I am too careful with my boat. I come from a family of sailors and I am used to their softness on the waves.