Best Bluewater Cruising boats?
- Thread starter alant
- Start date
Robert Wilson
Well-Known Member
No Discovery?
I'm surprised.
Perhaps I'd better re-think my Lottery-win spending.......
I'm surprised.
Perhaps I'd better re-think my Lottery-win spending.......
alant
Well-Known Member
How many built & how many done the races the list was compiled from?
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Very predictable if you follow the profile of the ARC entries over the last few years, and the list would be even more AWB orientated if it was just the ARC as more entrants come from Europe rather than US.
Food for thought for those still wedded to old style boats for this sort of voyaging.
Food for thought for those still wedded to old style boats for this sort of voyaging.
steve yates
Well-Known Member
The thread title is a bit of a misnomer.
I'm just a beginner, but the article is actually the most popular, not the the best.
Important difference surely.?
I wonder what the same list would look like if compiled from all the independent ocean crossings, as opposed to mass rallies.?
It's also noticeable that apart from the bag 42 by a smidgeon, none of them are under a quarter of a million dollars in price.
If I had one, I think I would flog it, buy an old fashioned one for around 50-60k and buy a house with the rest or stick it in the cruising fund.
I'm just a beginner, but the article is actually the most popular, not the the best.
Important difference surely.?
I wonder what the same list would look like if compiled from all the independent ocean crossings, as opposed to mass rallies.?
It's also noticeable that apart from the bag 42 by a smidgeon, none of them are under a quarter of a million dollars in price.
If I had one, I think I would flog it, buy an old fashioned one for around 50-60k and buy a house with the rest or stick it in the cruising fund.
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Lyndsey Doyle
N/A
A good point.
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Well I've crossed the Atlantic and cruised in the West Indies and back on my Moody 33 (1977 vintage).
Twice.
Twice.
Kelpie
Well-Known Member
Is there a way of finding out how many small private boats cross the Atlantic outside of the ARC?
I have met quite a few people who have taken their boat transat- most of them in Rivals and similar- not one of them had anything to do with the ARC other than doing their best to avoid it.
The ARC joining fee appears to be about the same as the budget that I run my boat on for the year.
I have met quite a few people who have taken their boat transat- most of them in Rivals and similar- not one of them had anything to do with the ARC other than doing their best to avoid it.
The ARC joining fee appears to be about the same as the budget that I run my boat on for the year.
Minchsailor
Well-Known Member
It's an article written by journalists to fill the pages in a magazine cheaply - and get a good headline for the cover.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
While the article does not capture the independent sailors' preferences, it does reflect an inevitable trend that moire and more people will use modern boats for all sorts of reasons. it is inevitable because old style boats are wearing out and the numbers available in relation to the number of people taking up ocean voyaging is declining. The growth in numbers is from non UK sailors who do not have access (nor nostalgic attraction) to old British boats. The cost of the latest boats is just a reflection of growing affluence which leads people to have larger amounts of disposable income to spend on boats.
The real lesson is in the narrative that accompanies the "stats" - and that is modern boats make very satisfactory ocean cruisers.
The real lesson is in the narrative that accompanies the "stats" - and that is modern boats make very satisfactory ocean cruisers.
alant
Well-Known Member
First, determine your criteria for "the best".
This list, is of production boats that have successfully crossed oceans, using the published results data.
Yes, you could perhaps make the same claim for something like a Tradewind 33, but would it finish the race in time the list goes to print?
E39mad
Well-Known Member
It would be a better article if they could put the boats into categories such as:
Boats up to 40 feet
Boats over 40 feet
Boats under 100k
Boats over 100k
They are assuming most people are well healed (forgive the pun!)
Boats up to 40 feet
Boats over 40 feet
Boats under 100k
Boats over 100k
They are assuming most people are well healed (forgive the pun!)
doug748
Well-Known Member
Yes, spot on there.
It's very gratifying that a 50 foot boat is capable of crossing to America but it don't add up to a row of beans, as far as the ordinary Joe is concerned.
Last time I was read a lecture about who sailed what to where, I took the trouble of averaging the LOA of the 200, or so, boats involved in the ARC. It came out at over 45 feet. At the lower end of the fleet all I could find were a couple of Hanse 34s a Sigma and a Marieholm 32 from the 1970's.
Supine Being
Well-Known Member
Like other on here, though, I wonder if the ARC is really representative. They all seem to be a certain sort of sailor with a bit (well, a lot) of cash to spare for the ARC entry fees. That means they're probably not going to be in the smaller, older end of the boat market. Similarly, Discos are not main market for obvious reasons.
Also, the article seems to be only talking about the Atlantic ARC. Would you make the same choices for a circumnavigation? When I think (well, dream) of Blue Water cruising these days, I'm really thinking about something that can also go high-latitude, so not a 40-odd foot Benny. I quite fancy one of those Garcias that Jimmy Cornell worked on. Well, if I'm going to dream, I might as well dream big, right?
Also, the article seems to be only talking about the Atlantic ARC. Would you make the same choices for a circumnavigation? When I think (well, dream) of Blue Water cruising these days, I'm really thinking about something that can also go high-latitude, so not a 40-odd foot Benny. I quite fancy one of those Garcias that Jimmy Cornell worked on. Well, if I'm going to dream, I might as well dream big, right?
E39mad
Well-Known Member
Also many of the more "traditional" ocean going yachts do not go in the ARC as they feel they can cross without the "security" of the rally.
Lyndsey Doyle
N/A
An interesting conversation. My boat's sistership, Vixen, capt. Bruce Halabisky, has recently completed her second circumnavigation, returning with two extra little crew members She would not be even allowed to enter the ARC !
She would not be even allowed to enter the ARC !GrahamM376
Well-Known Member
It would be very different. We're based in an area where arrivals and departures across the pond and circum navigators are common. Lots of much cheaper and older boats, many steel. Mate has just crossed to Bermuda in an old steel boat around 37ft, in loose company with a larger concrete one. At a guess, the boats would be worth around £50k each.
alant
Well-Known Member
Nothing to do with this, I hope?
Sea water
Concrete exposed to seawater is susceptible to its corrosive effects. The effects are more pronounced above the tidal zone than where the concrete is permanently submerged.
"Concrete degradation" on @Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concrete_degradation?wprov=sfta1
tcm
...
well, having crossed just now on a 57ft mono ... and lots more times on a 50ft cat, I would take the cat every time. In fact, I wouldn't much plan big trips on anything else.
Performance at anchor is part of the story for cats, lack of paralysing rolling in even moderate ocean is the other. There's a pic somewhere of when we played Jenga in the middle of the Atlantic on the cat, whereas I am not sure I cooked much more than bacon and eggs on the mono. Other things like massive motoring range (small motors) and spare engine are secondary, but nice. The ONLY issue against cats is that they don't look as lovely as a mono - to which the answer is that a 747 doesn't look that gorgeous either, and that's an even better way across the Atlantic...
Mono's are more for weekend or beam-reachy sailing fun, perhaps racing, but always a nice marina at nights with proper bar and/or someone else to do the cooking.
Catamarans allow you to live on the boat to the extent that (for example) you would be fine to complete your transat ... and on arrival - to sit at anchor for weeks at a time. I mean- without bothering to go ashore at all. On a mono, you'd be looking forward to getting off the dang boat ASAP and might frequently "treat yourself" to a marina - a clear indication that being on a mono long-term is an awkward way of life.
Thus the ideal blue-water boat has more than one hull, is over 47 feet and costs at least £400k second hand. It doesn't have teak side decks or blue hull.
The only reason that monos are used is cos they're cheaper, they're a better racing option if the budget is under £2m, and cos they "sell" better to know-nowts and charter crew.
Doing a long trip on a mono is a bit like if you saw someone doing a long road trip on a motorbike. They decided that they'd do it the hard way, altho admittedly a cheaper way than in a car or a camper van. Maybe cheaper, depends. BUT - motorbikes are more fun, right ? Yeah, well, they are sometimes - but not when it's raining they aren't, and not when on a long motorway trip you are on your own with no talking cos the 2-way radios don't work above 70/80mph, and not when all the bike clobber means you take 20minutes to get off and get on the bike and so on and on.
Thus mono sailors on long-time trips and circumnavigations are also compromising for all the wrong reasons: they are either a bit skint, or a bit daft-proud of a boat that most people don't care about cos it's out in the anchorage inuit, or a bit clueless and didn't realise that drawing over 2m limits their options in lagoons etc ... of all of these. If their mono is made of steel, then they're also a bit scaredy too - fear is the primary driver towards a steel hull as other here have already stated.
ARC-wise, there's plenty of serious boats cross pre and post-ARC. The ARC attracts particular the more trepid, and the professional charter race boats .... and one or two of the more canny types, if it suits them. All groups book miles in advance cos it gets booked up by end of March. The pro's then sell berths at £3k+ a pop, and at least a dozen charter racing boats do the same trip every year.
The trepid types are first-timers for the most part. The canny ones (not many) would go alone - but booking with the ARC means they have no problem staying in the ultra-cheap Las Palmas marina (perhaps the cheapest actual marina with water and lucky in Europe, so they say...) where the savings more than cover the ARC entry fee - and you can't stay in LP in November UNLESS you are with the ARC.
Wiser folk than me reckon maximum 10% of transat boats go with the ARC every year - meaning that about 3000 make the transat trip each year. Those who go more than once there and once back on a mono ... are making money doing the trip - or otherwise get paid. It's blimmin awful.
Performance at anchor is part of the story for cats, lack of paralysing rolling in even moderate ocean is the other. There's a pic somewhere of when we played Jenga in the middle of the Atlantic on the cat, whereas I am not sure I cooked much more than bacon and eggs on the mono. Other things like massive motoring range (small motors) and spare engine are secondary, but nice. The ONLY issue against cats is that they don't look as lovely as a mono - to which the answer is that a 747 doesn't look that gorgeous either, and that's an even better way across the Atlantic...
Mono's are more for weekend or beam-reachy sailing fun, perhaps racing, but always a nice marina at nights with proper bar and/or someone else to do the cooking.
Catamarans allow you to live on the boat to the extent that (for example) you would be fine to complete your transat ... and on arrival - to sit at anchor for weeks at a time. I mean- without bothering to go ashore at all. On a mono, you'd be looking forward to getting off the dang boat ASAP and might frequently "treat yourself" to a marina - a clear indication that being on a mono long-term is an awkward way of life.
Thus the ideal blue-water boat has more than one hull, is over 47 feet and costs at least £400k second hand. It doesn't have teak side decks or blue hull.
The only reason that monos are used is cos they're cheaper, they're a better racing option if the budget is under £2m, and cos they "sell" better to know-nowts and charter crew.
Doing a long trip on a mono is a bit like if you saw someone doing a long road trip on a motorbike. They decided that they'd do it the hard way, altho admittedly a cheaper way than in a car or a camper van. Maybe cheaper, depends. BUT - motorbikes are more fun, right ? Yeah, well, they are sometimes - but not when it's raining they aren't, and not when on a long motorway trip you are on your own with no talking cos the 2-way radios don't work above 70/80mph, and not when all the bike clobber means you take 20minutes to get off and get on the bike and so on and on.
Thus mono sailors on long-time trips and circumnavigations are also compromising for all the wrong reasons: they are either a bit skint, or a bit daft-proud of a boat that most people don't care about cos it's out in the anchorage inuit, or a bit clueless and didn't realise that drawing over 2m limits their options in lagoons etc ... of all of these. If their mono is made of steel, then they're also a bit scaredy too - fear is the primary driver towards a steel hull as other here have already stated.
ARC-wise, there's plenty of serious boats cross pre and post-ARC. The ARC attracts particular the more trepid, and the professional charter race boats .... and one or two of the more canny types, if it suits them. All groups book miles in advance cos it gets booked up by end of March. The pro's then sell berths at £3k+ a pop, and at least a dozen charter racing boats do the same trip every year.
The trepid types are first-timers for the most part. The canny ones (not many) would go alone - but booking with the ARC means they have no problem staying in the ultra-cheap Las Palmas marina (perhaps the cheapest actual marina with water and lucky in Europe, so they say...) where the savings more than cover the ARC entry fee - and you can't stay in LP in November UNLESS you are with the ARC.
Wiser folk than me reckon maximum 10% of transat boats go with the ARC every year - meaning that about 3000 make the transat trip each year. Those who go more than once there and once back on a mono ... are making money doing the trip - or otherwise get paid. It's blimmin awful.
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