best and cheapes way to obtain boating quilifications

Quiddle said:
And yet they have never asked for a license, which is what this discussion is about. No one disputes the right of state authorities to enforce the law.
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I suspect licenses might be asked for in the event of a mishap, and the unlicensed skipper will be on the back foot regarding blame.

To return to the thread title, I think the best and cheapest route to qualification is to sail a lot with whoever will take you and learn by doing, backed up by reading lots of books. That's if you can't arrange to be born into a sailing family or community. But I think most people are looking for a route that doesn't take 20 years?
For some people, borrow the money and do 'zero to hero' is the right answer. Life is short, get on with it!
 
Quiddle said:
And yet they have never asked for a license, which is what this discussion is about. No one disputes the right of state authorities to enforce the law .....
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You've missed the point which was in response to the naive comment -
, there is little/nothing that they can do regarding the crewing of a foreign flagged vessel. The qualifications are down to the laws of the flag country, and no concern of any other nation.
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..nothing to do with "right of state authorities to enforce the law", day to day reality is that get them on a bad morning what the PM decide that particular day isn't the same as "down to the laws of the flag country".
Very pertinent to the thread.
 
lw395 said:
I suspect licenses might be asked for in the event of a mishap, and the unlicensed skipper will be on the back foot regarding blame.
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Licenses? Could you possibly show me where and who issues licenses? I have not heard of or seen any such thing in my 35 years of sailing ... are you sure you are not confused?

Perhaps you are thinking of the various courses and certification schemes, none of which are in any way a "licence" nor have any legal standing.

On inland waterways, countries are free to make up whatever rules they like about who can use them, and with what training. The open sea is a different matter, where boats operate under the rules of their flag.
 
rszemeti said:
Licenses? Could you possibly show me where and who issues licenses? I have not heard of or seen any such thing in my 35 years of sailing ... are you sure you are not confused?

Perhaps you are thinking of the various courses and certification schemes, none of which are in any way a "licence" nor have any legal standing.

On inland waterways, countries are free to make up whatever rules they like about who can use them, and with what training. The open sea is a different matter, where boats operate under the rules of their flag.
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You've not been to Croatia?
 
I was once asked for ICC in France, as part of what seemed like an intensive check of documents. I know people who have been asked for it in Spain, specifically Ceuta.
 
Cheapest way - ICC test and certificate for over 10m on a school’s powerboat. I did this (under 10m sailing). It is not training, it is a test of mixed practical and theory. The one I did was pretty basic, simple boat handling, mob and docking. Not really a valid test of competence but gained the certificate for c. £220 and it took one day and about 4 hours of online refresher study.

Best - gain lots of experience in difficult real world situations sailing with good people and then as skipper and then go straight for RYA Coastal Skipper followed by Yacht master. I am not personally convinced that Day Skipper is of great value based on my experience of the competence of a number of people who have passed the course but still have a massive amount to learn.
I have chosen not to do the RYA courses but just stick with the ICC for now. I might be a bit of an oddity,however, as a ex Merchant Navy navigation officer (who has forgotten a lot by commercial standards but who has hopefully retained enough for coastal leisure sailing).
 
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Dutch01527 said:
Cheapest way - ICC test and certificate for over 10m on a school’s powerboat. I did this (under 10m sailing). It is not training, it is a test of mixed practical and theory. The one I did was pretty basic, simple boat handling, mob and docking. Not really a valid test of competence but gained the certificate for c. £220 and it took one day and about 4 hours of online refresher study.

Best - gain lots of experience in difficult real world situations sailing with good people and then as skipper and then go straight for RYA Coastal Skipper followed by Yacht master. I am not personally convinced that Day Skipper is of great value based on my experience of the competence of a number of people who have passed the course but still have a massive amount to learn.
I have chosen not to do the RYA courses but just stick with the ICC for now. I might be a bit of an oddity,however, as a ex Merchant Navy navigation officer (who has forgotten a lot by commercial standards but who has hopefully retained enough for coastal leisure sailing).
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Cheapest:
Just read up on this, https://www.boatability.co.uk/rya-leisure-courses/icc-power-over-10m/
Describes pretty much the Day Skipper, verging on Coastal (now called YM theory)
This will take considerable time and miles to gain this level of knowledge and experience.

Best:
I have not done a DS as jumped straight in at coastal as a refresher but I believe that DS has now been extended to 5 days each theory and practical to reflect an increase in the previous lower level.

There is also a requirement for 800 miles from DS to CS, then 2500 miles from CS to YM. These are there for a reason and can take years to get this experience without going down the route of fast track
 
I did a day skipper practical about 12 years ago, and last year bought a boat.

I've done around 1800 miles as skipper in the last 2 years, including the south and west coast of England and the east and south coasts of Ireland. Planning on going to Portugal for the summer next year, with a Biscay crossing.

I keep sorta thinking about doing the Yachtmaster course, but I'm put off it by the paper chart / celestial navigation aspects, which are more of a history lesson than practical use in todays world. I appreciate that it is possible the boat may lose all power, and some sea creature may board it that same night and eat the stock of spare batteries for the handheld GPS, but for my sailing, I am not really that interested in those aspects as a practical skill, although I am sure there is much else on the course I would find interesting.

I shall re-read more of Mr Cunliffes fine books this winter, however, I suspect I agree with his wife on the question of exams and certificates!
 
rszemeti said:
I did a day skipper practical about 12 years ago, and last year bought a boat.

I've done around 1800 miles as skipper in the last 2 years, including the south and west coast of England and the east and south coasts of Ireland. Planning on going to Portugal for the summer next year, with a Biscay crossing.

I keep sorta thinking about doing the Yachtmaster course, but I'm put off it by the paper chart / celestial navigation aspects, which are more of a history lesson than practical use in todays world. I appreciate that it is possible the boat may lose all power, and some sea creature may board it that same night and eat the stock of spare batteries for the handheld GPS, but for my sailing, I am not really that interested in those aspects as a practical skill, although I am sure there is much else on the course I would find interesting.

I shall re-read more of Mr Cunliffes fine books this winter, however, I suspect I agree with his wife on the question of exams and certificates!
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What if all the electric fails? I’ll use my iPad
What if your iPad fails? I’ll use the wife’s iPad
What if her iPad fails? I’ll use my phone
What if your phone fails? I’ll use my wife’s phone
What if her phone fails? I’ll use my hand held GPS from the grab bag
What if your GPS fails?
If I am that far from land and havnt turned back I shouldn’t really be a skipper.

HOWEVER.....
I still teach charts, they show a good understanding of knowledge, are tactile to work with, they are a back up and knowing how to use a chart makes it considerably easier to work a chart plotter.

In years to come I can see us losing the charts

Celestial nav is only required when going from YM offshore to ocean.
 
I’m not sure that I follow your post, razemeti,

There is no “yachtmaster” course, unless you are referring to Shorebased? Many schools do a YM exam prep week and these will be tailored to the needs of the candidates.

In taking a YM exam, you could be asked to demonstrate competence in any area of seamanship so a prep course is often used to brush-up known areas of weakness.

There is no celestial navigation content to YM Offshore Shorebased nor practical assessment.

YM Offshore and YM Ocean certificates of competence are issued by RYA and behalf of MCA. MCA is a government agency and our government is a member of the United Nations. The requirements for mariners crossing oceans is set by the UN and celestial navigation remains a part. I don’t believe it’s a history lesson.

I agree that Tom Cunliffe is a good author, though :)
 
Rocksteadee said:
I still teach charts, they show a good understanding of knowledge, are tactile to work with, they are a back up and knowing how to use a chart makes it considerably easier to work a chart plotter.

In years to come I can see us losing the charts

Celestial nav is only required when going from YM offshore to ocean.
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I can fully understand charts, I even have a set for wherever it is I am sailing, however in the last 2 years, apart from getting them out to marvel at their loveliness and sort them back into their folios, I have not actually found a need to use them whilst on passage.

I know how to use them, how to calculate instant tidal flows and depths, I have the tidal streams atlas and last year I even purchased an almanac ... but, same as in my flying, I have come to rely on electronics. All the information is there in a more convenient and accessible form.

I suspect what I really need is some more experience of heavy weather boat handling, and not chickening out every time it gets to 30 knots.
 
rszemeti said:
I did a day skipper practical about 12 years ago, and last year bought a boat.

I've done around 1800 miles as skipper in the last 2 years, including the south and west coast of England and the east and south coasts of Ireland. Planning on going to Portugal for the summer next year, with a Biscay crossing.

I keep sorta thinking about doing the Yachtmaster course, but I'm put off it by the paper chart / celestial navigation aspects, which are more of a history lesson than practical use in todays world. I appreciate that it is possible the boat may lose all power, and some sea creature may board it that same night and eat the stock of spare batteries for the handheld GPS, but for my sailing, I am not really that interested in those aspects as a practical skill, although I am sure there is much else on the course I would find interesting.

I shall re-read more of Mr Cunliffes fine books this winter, however, I suspect I agree with his wife on the question of exams and certificates!
Click to expand...

No celestial navigation at on YM. The paper chart stuff is piss easy if you have the required mileage and experience, it really is simple stuff and common sense. Not historical by any means. I navigate by tablet now, but can go back to traditional methods when things fail, and I always double check my position.
 
Blimey,
Such an array of conflicting advice.... I'm sure anyone would get confused with this. So many people answering questions that were not asked too...
 
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