Best 36-40ft cruiser-racers for... well... cruising

[Trevelyan]

Hi all,

I’ve come back to my own thread a bit late….

We looked at a Hanse 400 but it felt a bit bigger than we really needed, also looked at a 375 which felt right size-wise (but the particular boat wasn’t the best) – grateful for any thoughts on what a 375 sails like? Presumably if you get the self-tacker off and put a proper sail on…

Dufour 40 Performance, Dehler 39 SQ/JV, Elan 37 Performance look like good shouts – more research to be done. I have a friend with a J120 that I’ve been on once; felt a bit cramped for the size of the boat – suspect might not fit the ‘domestic’ brief. On that front we’ve also decided three cabins is now a must, so that narrows it a bit too.

Further suggestions/insight very much welcomed! EDIT: Yes the key metric really is light airs performance - family are going to want to out when it is fairly benign....

 

[wonkywinch]

I've only been sailing for 10 years but had a go at many different charter boats (all monohull) from 36 to 52 feet. I've been a member of a couple of sailing clubs and shared boat schemes. My thought is for short/single handed, then 38 feet is a sweet spot that is roomy below and easy to manage with just one or two of you.

If you plan to use a marina, then costs start shooting up above 40 feet.

 

[Trevelyan]

I've only been sailing for 10 years but had a go at many different charter boats (all monohull) from 36 to 52 feet. I've been a member of a couple of sailing clubs and shared boat schemes. My thought is for short/single handed, then 38 feet is a sweet spot that is roomy below and easy to manage with just one or two of you.

If you plan to use a marina, then costs start shooting up above 40 feet.

38 feet being the sweet spot is a point well made which I agree with - particularly grateful for any suggestions of good sailing performance boats of that sort of length with 3 cabins…

 

[dgadee]

Have they been building cruiser racers for the past couple of decades or so? Not sure if it's a style which has had its time. No idea really.

 

[dunedin]

Have they been building cruiser racers for the past couple of decades or so? Not sure if it's a style which has had its time. No idea really.

For the OP’s requirement, to “go cruising quickly”, yes these boats have been built in recent decades - notably Arcona, X Yachts etc.
But even mainstream cruising boats often are faster than older “cruiser racers” of similar length - often due to longer waterlines and more powerful hulls (eg Hanse etc).
Even the likes of modern HR are faster than equivalent older models.

 

[dgadee]

For the OP’s requirement, to “go cruising quickly”, yes these boats have been built in recent decades - notably Arcona, X Yachts etc.
But even mainstream cruising boats often are faster than older “cruiser racers” of similar length - often due to longer waterlines and more powerful hulls (eg Hanse etc).
Even the likes of modern HR are faster than equivalent older models.

My Dehler was measured (I have the forms) and raced just before I bought. I gave away the racing sails. Would these more recent examples be raced?

 

[John_Silver]

"​

38 feet being the sweet spot is a point well made which I agree with - particularly grateful for any suggestions of good sailing performance boats of that sort of length with 3 cabins…

Dazcat 1195 Spirit of Freedom for sale



Plenty of performance; 2.5 cabins plus substantial (sleepable?) saloon and (separate) galley; ‘right’ length; tea pot won’t slide about; stretches the budget a bit. But seems like plenty of performance cruising bangs per buck.​

 

[dgadee]

It would look sleek if you took that sun shade thingy off. I would need to sell the crew to afford one of those.

Ps: you are collecting a lot of stats on visitors!

 

[fredrussell]

…stretches the budget a bit…​

It’s £280k!! Given OP said “preferably not straying too far into six figures” I’d say that stretches budget quite a bit more than ‘a bit’.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

It’s £280k!! Given OP said “preferably not straying too far into six figures” I’d say that stretches budget quite a bit more than ‘a bit’.

That’s why I haven’t suggested a multi, much as I think the OP would enjoy one. He could have a considerably shorter cat than that and still have his 3 cabins and sports performance. But a mono is cheaper.

 

[dunedin]

My Dehler was measured (I have the forms) and raced just before I bought. I gave away the racing sails. Would these more recent examples be raced?

There are a lot of different types and levels of racing, so difficult to give a meaningful answer.
In club racing under local handicaps, anything and everything can be raced - including old bilge keelers etc.
In regional events such as Scottish Series, West Highland Week and the other UK equivalents yes plenty of modern fast cruisers turn up for a bit of balanced racing and fun.

It’s when get onto championship events run under IRC and ORC that it is a very different matter. Boats don’t need to be fast, but fast relative to their rating - which is a different thing.
A brand new X Yacht model (XR41) won most things under ORC last year - but it was a more focussed race boat not a cruiser racer.
Also at that level the costs and focus is so high few nowadays attempt to combine racing and cruising - as often paying bills for professional crew as well as multiple 3DL sails. And would have to remove every single bit of cruising gear to minimise weight. It doesn’t seem to appeal.

And as noted, the OP’s requirement is not racing, but fast cruising. Hence the fast cruisers listed earlier make lots of sense.

 

[dgadee]

There are a lot of different types and levels of racing, so difficult to give a meaningful answer.
In club racing under local handicaps, anything and everything can be raced - including old bilge keelers etc.
In regional events such as Scottish Series, West Highland Week and the other UK equivalents yes plenty of modern fast cruisers turn up for a bit of balanced racing and fun.

It’s when get onto championship events run under IRC and ORC that it is a very different matter. Boats don’t need to be fast, but fast relative to their rating - which is a different thing.
A brand new X Yacht model (XR41) won most things under ORC last year - but it was a more focussed race boat not a cruiser racer.
Also at that level the costs and focus is so high few nowadays attempt to combine racing and cruising - as often paying bills for professional crew as well as multiple 3DL sails. And would have to remove every single bit of cruising gear to minimise weight. It doesn’t seem to appeal.

And as noted, the OP’s requirement is not racing, but fast cruising. Hence the fast cruisers listed earlier make lots of sense.

Thanks. Makes sense. My Dehler was IRC rated at 972. Not sure what that means in terms of speed.

I used to race but never on expensive boats - mainly Ruffian 23 class (we once won the NI Championship).

 

[Chiara’s slave]

If the OP wants speed, then the rating numbers are a reasonable place to start. It's 100% true that a quick rating has nothing to do with wining races, but if you want to cruise quickly, it’s a fair measure. We have a quick rating and always arrive first. I have a chart simewhere of average VMG and rating in varioys wind strengths, for the purpose of determining how long a course should be. That can also tell you how far you can expect to sail in a given time. I’ll find it.

 

[flaming]

Thanks. Makes sense. My Dehler was IRC rated at 972. Not sure what that means in terms of speed.

I used to race but never on expensive boats - mainly Ruffian 23 class (we once won the NI Championship).

That’s not an IRC rating. IRC ratings are in the format 1.000.

Unless you mean an IRC rating of 0.972. Which would put it slightly slower than a sigma 38.

 

[dgadee]

That’s not an IRC rating. IRC ratings are in the format 1.000.

Unless you mean an IRC rating of 0.972. Which would put it slightly slower than a sigma 38.

Apologies. 0.972 it said.

 

[mrming]

One of the good things about the brief from the OP is that the boat doesn’t have to be able to sail to its rating. That means they can consider boats like the Salona 37 that never went that well on handicap but are otherwise really nice cruiser racers.

 

[ashtead]

The choice is probably quite limited in UK market. The boats which will be about most will be Bavaria,beneteau,jeanneau and Hanse. If looking more up budget then x or Arcona. You will find the bow cabin on the smaller arcona tight compared to 410 type. I assume you have ruled out Hallberg and rustler as not sporty enough. If looking I would be tempted by Dehler as as starter . A Dufour is not that quick I suspect but if looking at37 ish they have big galley and fridge but the forecabin is offset which might not appeal . A dream boat for a racer is thought to be an arcona but at a price. You might also consider where you want your mainsheet traveller which might impact choice. If moneyno object an xc42

 

[Chiara’s slave]

One of the good things about the brief from the OP is that the boat doesn’t have to be able to sail to its rating. That means they can consider boats like the Salona 37 that never went that well on handicap but are otherwise really nice cruiser racers.

Exactly. Finding a second hand racer that can win is far harder than finding a quick boat.

 

[mrming]

The choice is probably quite limited in UK market. The boats which will be about most will be Bavaria,beneteau,jeanneau and Hanse. If looking more up budget then x or Arcona. You will find the bow cabin on the smaller arcona tight compared to 410 type. I assume you have ruled out Hallberg and rustler as not sporty enough. If looking I would be tempted by Dehler as as starter . A Dufour is not that quick I suspect but if looking at37 ish they have big galley and fridge but the forecabin is offset which might not appeal . A dream boat for a racer is thought to be an arcona but at a price. You might also consider where you want your mainsheet traveller which might impact choice. If moneyno object an xc42

There are a couple of exceptions with the Dufours. The 34P, and 40P (as mentioned by @flaming ) are properly quick boats, and the 34P in particular is a very tricky customer to race against on IRC.

 

[Trevelyan]

One of the good things about the brief from the OP is that the boat doesn’t have to be able to sail to its rating. That means they can consider boats like the Salona 37 that never went that well on handicap but are otherwise really nice cruiser racers.

I had never heard of Salona... looks good, added to the list!