jim99bob
New Member
Hi, yes , does hurt ! am having to lift glass with other hand for the time being. went for disc brakes this time - seem quite good - not ridden it yet - maybe tomorrow!
beneteau engine problem
- Thread starter jim99bob
- Start date
vas
Well-Known Member
took me 4 weeks to ride my pushbike, today on six weeks went skiing for the first time but I was too scared I'll fall and it will hurt. Didn't fall, did hurt a bit so I was not taking any risks...
only advice I can give you is not to take it too easy and okay, nothing happened because you're going to be spending a lot of time in low/moderate pain and wont be progressing to a full recovery.
enough with the OT, back to cyl head and EGTs.
BTW, would be nice for Latestarter to have a look at the exhaust layout, from turbo to hull exit. He may be able to give some more info (as he did in my case
)Any photos of the installation you could post?
cheers
V.
jim99bob
New Member
beneteau engine up date
hi,
Head went off to Saunders motor works in Cadnam on friday. they phoned this morning to say there was a pin hole in the head between the exhaust and inlet valve on cylinder 4. I've just gone over and picked it up. hole is in virtually the same place as the other head, no evicence of any corrosion in water ways.
hi,
Head went off to Saunders motor works in Cadnam on friday. they phoned this morning to say there was a pin hole in the head between the exhaust and inlet valve on cylinder 4. I've just gone over and picked it up. hole is in virtually the same place as the other head, no evicence of any corrosion in water ways.
jim99bob
New Member
next step
Took head to a Company who Saunders use to repair alloy heads.
This company initially capped the hole, and then, elected to countersink the cap with a 3mm drill and then weld again.
when they drilled through the cap midway between the valves the guy said "well thats your problem, there is only 1mm of wall thickness on the side of the 4th cylinder inlet valve and 3mm on the otherside, its a casting fault"
you can see from the pictures that his drill encountered metal only on the side of the exhaust valve, and none the other side. Ist picture shows looking towards 4th inlet valve.
you can see there is no metal in there.
next picture shows looking the other way.
you can see that the wall is much thicker.
Took head to a Company who Saunders use to repair alloy heads.
This company initially capped the hole, and then, elected to countersink the cap with a 3mm drill and then weld again.
when they drilled through the cap midway between the valves the guy said "well thats your problem, there is only 1mm of wall thickness on the side of the 4th cylinder inlet valve and 3mm on the otherside, its a casting fault"
you can see from the pictures that his drill encountered metal only on the side of the exhaust valve, and none the other side. Ist picture shows looking towards 4th inlet valve.
you can see there is no metal in there.
next picture shows looking the other way.
you can see that the wall is much thicker.
jim99bob
New Member
new head offer
Peachment have offered to sell me a new head for £1440 plus delivery.
I send my camshaft to them, they build new head and send it back.
Peachment have offered to sell me a new head for £1440 plus delivery.
I send my camshaft to them, they build new head and send it back.
Elza_Skip
Well-Known Member
A terrible story of poor quality and service- sorry to hear your woes.
And there I was 18 months ago wondering do I go for a 20 year old Fairline with Volvos or put more money in to get a much new Beneteau 9.80 for better reliability and lower costs!
And there I was 18 months ago wondering do I go for a 20 year old Fairline with Volvos or put more money in to get a much new Beneteau 9.80 for better reliability and lower costs!
burgundyben
Well-Known Member
If you did that, how would you know that the replacement head will be any better in that respect?
(Not convinced that casting is the issue).
volvopaul
Well-Known Member
Wait till late starter sees this, I'd be sticking it right up nannis wosit!!!
vas
Well-Known Member
+1
the forums would be full of such reports, cannot be the first one to experience such a catastrophic failure twice!
EGTs, backpressure, other issues to be addressed? Any photos of the installation and exhaust layout?
stuartwineberg
Well-Known Member
What's the bigger picture
I confess to being confused by this thread. I share everyone's concern for the OP who is having a terrible time. Does he have a couple of Friday engines or is there a bigger problem with either the engines or the boat installation design? My question relates to the bigger market picture. Where are the forumites who have this engine in their boats and have run 500 hours plus without a problem? Where are the comments from Nanni defending their engines? Where are Bennie saying that they have numerous examples of Bennie 9.8s with Nanni's that are running fine after many years?
I have a vested interest as I am very interested in the B 9.8 as a possible purchase but at the moment I feel that if this was a model of car it would be subject to a recall. At the moment it loks like every B 9.8 with Nanni's is compromised.
Have I missed the point?
I confess to being confused by this thread. I share everyone's concern for the OP who is having a terrible time. Does he have a couple of Friday engines or is there a bigger problem with either the engines or the boat installation design? My question relates to the bigger market picture. Where are the forumites who have this engine in their boats and have run 500 hours plus without a problem? Where are the comments from Nanni defending their engines? Where are Bennie saying that they have numerous examples of Bennie 9.8s with Nanni's that are running fine after many years?
I have a vested interest as I am very interested in the B 9.8 as a possible purchase but at the moment I feel that if this was a model of car it would be subject to a recall. At the moment it loks like every B 9.8 with Nanni's is compromised.
Have I missed the point?
Latestarter1
Well-Known Member
Nanni/Toyota engine failures
Ok guys time for some measured thinking.........
I will venture to say that head failure certainly does not look installation related, and recoil at the term Friday engine. However this is no time for public conjecture over the failures.
Do no know what is status of the repair, however if it has not been given the go ahead STOP RIGHT THERE. Detailed examination of head casting will require slicing the head up, any repair will destroy evidence.
Formulate a very polite but firm letter to MD of Nanni in France and copy Kevin Peachment at AR Peachment. Outline your whole exerience in full detail.
Submit the very good pictures you have taken and invite THEIR conclusions as to the cause of the cylinder head failures. Invite Nanni or their representitive to come and inspect the failed cylinder head at your repairers premises. However do not let anybody take the head away for examination, remember the head is your evidence.
What would I be looking for???? A policy commitment on a replacement cylinder head and significant contribution to labour costs. I would also be seeking a letter of commitment giving 100% coverage of any subsequent failure attributable to failure of the same component, in order to protect your investment and their reputation.
Speak quietly but be prepared to carry a big stick.
Ok guys time for some measured thinking.........
I will venture to say that head failure certainly does not look installation related, and recoil at the term Friday engine. However this is no time for public conjecture over the failures.
Do no know what is status of the repair, however if it has not been given the go ahead STOP RIGHT THERE. Detailed examination of head casting will require slicing the head up, any repair will destroy evidence.
Formulate a very polite but firm letter to MD of Nanni in France and copy Kevin Peachment at AR Peachment. Outline your whole exerience in full detail.
Submit the very good pictures you have taken and invite THEIR conclusions as to the cause of the cylinder head failures. Invite Nanni or their representitive to come and inspect the failed cylinder head at your repairers premises. However do not let anybody take the head away for examination, remember the head is your evidence.
What would I be looking for???? A policy commitment on a replacement cylinder head and significant contribution to labour costs. I would also be seeking a letter of commitment giving 100% coverage of any subsequent failure attributable to failure of the same component, in order to protect your investment and their reputation.
Speak quietly but be prepared to carry a big stick.
stuartwineberg
Well-Known Member
Recoil not intended
It was not my intention to cause anyone to recoil, least of all one of our acknowledged experts. What I meant was that I feel the need to know if we are looking at a one off fault, a batch fault or a general production fault in these engines. My use of "Friday engine" was flippant I agree but meant to refer to the idea of a one-off fault for whatever reason. I would be very interested to hear whether the serial numbers of the engines that have both failed are sequential. If they are not and are a significant number of units apart that makes me doubt the overall engine manufacturing process/design.
It was not my intention to cause anyone to recoil, least of all one of our acknowledged experts. What I meant was that I feel the need to know if we are looking at a one off fault, a batch fault or a general production fault in these engines. My use of "Friday engine" was flippant I agree but meant to refer to the idea of a one-off fault for whatever reason. I would be very interested to hear whether the serial numbers of the engines that have both failed are sequential. If they are not and are a significant number of units apart that makes me doubt the overall engine manufacturing process/design.
Latestarter1
Well-Known Member
Stuart,
Verly little maual input into modern diesel engine. For probably around £30 worth of labour in say a 350 Hp engine. All about process capability and control. It is NOT good practice to build engines in sequence, far better from quality control aspect to build biffering models, even with small manual input keeps operators on the alert and ball.
Looking at the failure I feel needs urgent action on the part of the OP before his position is compromised, manufacturers have a habit of snooping around forums.
Bbroomlea
Well-Known Member
I remember reading this thread a couple of years ago when I was considering an Avensis:
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=75981
Not sure if the Nanni is the same 2.2 d4d engine but I assumed that it was.
You dont need to type very much in Google to find a list of Toyota head issues on their 2.2 diesel.
Toyota themselves have improved their warranty in admission of an issue - surely this should be enough evidence to suggest that the engine is not fit for purpose.
Out of interest I bought an Audi A4 2.0 170 diesel and suffered major injector failure instead - a 3K bill to go with it too. Luckily Audi covered the cost under good will. Modern diesels are not what they were.
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=75981
Not sure if the Nanni is the same 2.2 d4d engine but I assumed that it was.
You dont need to type very much in Google to find a list of Toyota head issues on their 2.2 diesel.
Toyota themselves have improved their warranty in admission of an issue - surely this should be enough evidence to suggest that the engine is not fit for purpose.
Out of interest I bought an Audi A4 2.0 170 diesel and suffered major injector failure instead - a 3K bill to go with it too. Luckily Audi covered the cost under good will. Modern diesels are not what they were.
PaulGooch
Well-Known Member
The Nanni in question here is a different engine to the above. It is a 4 cylinder, 3.0 TDi engine based on the 1KZ-TE engines, as used in the Landcruiser Colorado, pre D4D. (As has been mentioned at least twice in this thread
)
Bbroomlea
Well-Known Member
The Nanni in question here is a different engine to the above. It is a 4 cylinder, 3.0 TDi engine based on the 1KZ-TE engines, as used in the Landcruiser Colorado, pre D4D. (As has been mentioned at least twice in this thread
Sorry! I should read more
I put 2 and 2 together (Nanni (Toyota) and Head issues) and made 6!
Was the 2.2 marinised by Nanni?
I still stand by the fact that modern diesels are not what they were. I wonder how many will be running around in 20/30/40 years like we have today with some older Volvo's, Perkins, BMC's etc
Latestarter1
Well-Known Member
Sorry! I should read more
I put 2 and 2 together (Nanni (Toyota) and Head issues) and made 6!
Was the 2.2 marinised by Nanni?
I still stand by the fact that modern diesels are not what they were. I wonder how many will be running around in 20/30/40 years like we have today with some older Volvo's, Perkins, BMC's etc
Modern diesels are ten times what they were. Old stuff had plenty if reliability issues as well as being smoky and leaky.
We are asking a lot of little light duty automotive engines in marine applications, the installation has to be 100% right or else they will have the life of a disposable cigarette lighter.
In this case problem APPEARS fundamental, and will require some hard talking. Very odd issue in modern manufacturing.
oldgit
Well-Known Member
. I wonder how many will be running around in 20/30/40 years like we have today with some older Volvo's, Perkins, BMC's etc[/QUOTE]
Being in a motor trade which comes into contact with vehicles frequently covering starship mileages,evidence suggests that modern diesels will exceed the achievements of earlier stuff.This is simply because the car around it will last so much longer.
Where as once it would have been only Mercedes legendary oil burners managing high mileages it is now virtually anything that is well maintained(and many that are not.).
It started with the old private hire favorite the Nissan Bluebird and seems to have continued with anything VAG and now Ford/Vauxhall.
Many Citreons,Renualts and Peugeots power units might be just as good but the cars tend to fall to bits first.
The only thing which appears to limit the life of all these engines are the electronics,when failure means the end of the line because replacement will exceed the value of the car.This is frequently due to water ingress,poss. class action in US against VAG.Well known problem with ECU in Audisand Passats etc.
Some 10 year old cars with less than 100K on the odometer have gone to the great carpark in the sky due to this.
Being in a motor trade which comes into contact with vehicles frequently covering starship mileages,evidence suggests that modern diesels will exceed the achievements of earlier stuff.This is simply because the car around it will last so much longer.
Where as once it would have been only Mercedes legendary oil burners managing high mileages it is now virtually anything that is well maintained(and many that are not.).
It started with the old private hire favorite the Nissan Bluebird and seems to have continued with anything VAG and now Ford/Vauxhall.
Many Citreons,Renualts and Peugeots power units might be just as good but the cars tend to fall to bits first.
The only thing which appears to limit the life of all these engines are the electronics,when failure means the end of the line because replacement will exceed the value of the car.This is frequently due to water ingress,poss. class action in US against VAG.Well known problem with ECU in Audisand Passats etc.
Some 10 year old cars with less than 100K on the odometer have gone to the great carpark in the sky due to this.
Last edited:
Spi D
...
Nanni does not take engines smaller than 3 ltr. from Toyota:
PaulGooch
Well-Known Member
I have one of these engines in my boat. They were fitted to many smaller French boats. Very unusual to hear of major problems with one, AFAIK. Mine has done 525 hours and runs like a watch.
