alancollins
Member
Thanks everyone , particularly Plum for the wiring diagram as mine is the Leroy Somer winch.
Beneteau Antares 760 windlass
- Thread starter alancollins
- Start date
BruceK
Well-known member
Just throwing this out. Have you had a bow thruster fitted retrospectively? I have seen quite a few shortcuts using the power to the winch to power the bow thruster on smaller boats and your wiring fault may have something to do with the bow thruster rather than the winch itself. It eludes me now but IIRC the winch wouldnt operate if the bow thruster was armed or similar
alancollins
Member
I have had a thruster fitted in my ownership when I replaced the single battery fitted by Beneteau with separate batteries for engine and services, but it was wired independently and operates with or without the engine running. I should have asked the fitter to rewire the windlass in the same way.
BruceK
Well-known member
Well something is rather odd there because the battery bank is the parent source for all power. Having the motor on just charges batteries with batteries acting as ballast. I presume you dont have a duff battery. Is there any other electric or electronic device onboard that only activates when the engine is on? I'd be interested to know. Anyway I digress. If your battery was sub par you could easily have burnt the relay by drawing more amps to compensate for voltage drop through it and would explain why it would only work with engine running. Find the relay and check to see if it's working, keep a spare.
alancollins
Member
I thought the alternator was the primary power source and that the windlass must be powered from there. It has always required the engine to be running, even with brand new batteries. All other electrics on the boat are independent of the engine.
BruceK
Well-known member
I find that very unusual. I may be wrong and let the board correct me.
On your boat I'd expect the windlass model ranges at your disposal will have a normal current draw of between 45 and 80 amp depending on make model etc. Startup or stall draw can be as much a 300 amp. This is not something designed to run off an alternator which given your boat size and engine will also be in the 50 to 60 Amp range. It's like trying to start an engine from the power of an alternator alone. It's not going to happen and if it does is not going to work well at all. I'd suggest that somehow the soft side of the relay is connected to the wrong ignition wires, or maybe not, but not the winch itself
On your boat I'd expect the windlass model ranges at your disposal will have a normal current draw of between 45 and 80 amp depending on make model etc. Startup or stall draw can be as much a 300 amp. This is not something designed to run off an alternator which given your boat size and engine will also be in the 50 to 60 Amp range. It's like trying to start an engine from the power of an alternator alone. It's not going to happen and if it does is not going to work well at all. I'd suggest that somehow the soft side of the relay is connected to the wrong ignition wires, or maybe not, but not the winch itself
alancollins
Member
Sorry Bruce, I don't follow this. I am not an electrician but I do know that the windlass will only operate when the engine is running , so where else would the current be coming from if a fully charged battery will not operate it?
starfire
Well-known member
Usually a relay in the control circuit to the foot switches, the coil fed from the alternator, so it will only operate with the engine running.
I'd look for the control circuit fuse as said, or find & check the relay
I'd look for the control circuit fuse as said, or find & check the relay
alancollins
Member
OK. Thanks for that.
Plum
Well-known member
Well done. You have just reminded me that on my 760 there is a relay fixed (not a VP part) to the back of the alternator and before my ownership somebody had removed some of the wiring to it. As my winch works no mater when the engine is running or not maybe that relay is what is/was inhibiting the winch without the engine running, as other owners report.
Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk
BruceK
Well-known member
Well if they build boats the same way as they build their cars I suppose anything is possible, but I think it's odd you'd push high amperage through any switch, foot or not.
starfire
Well-known member
They don't, the switches control a high current reversing contactor, it's just the low control current that goes through the switching
Razy
New member
I had the same issue with the Quick windlass on my 760. It turned out to be the relay near the alternator. It is a NO relay powered when the engine is running, and it disconnects the ground from the windlass control circuit. I am not sure that I am too comfortable with this set-up, I would like to be able to drop anchor if my engine fails without going to the bow and doing it manually.
ithet
Well-known member
This seems common on Beneteaus. They put a 12v relay behind the alternator so that the anchor winch can only be used with the engine running. BTW this relay is in the low current circuit and separate from the main breaker. There also seems to be a +ve and -ve wire available in the harness which I assume is to cater for different supplier's winch models.
Plum
Well-known member
An old thread, but yes, as referred to in post #30 the wire from my relay behind the alternator had been cut before my ownership which explains why my windlass will run with the engine off.
Picture below shows my relay behind the alternator where you can see the brown wire which no longer goes anywhere. (I've since removed the brown wire completely)
www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk
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Mistroma
Well-known member
My Jeanneau has the option of running the windlass with the engine off. I've always left it set to the default but did test it when installing a wireless remote. Not exactly easy to find but just a matter of opening a panel in the forward cabin and inserting a link. The link was taped to the bulkhead with a note to say where it should be connected to allow use without the engine running.
Pleinmont
Active member
Apologies for resurrecting an old thread here but my 760 windlass has just suddenly stopped working...
Fuse behind the helm doesn't trip and weirdly there is a beeping from in the wheelhouse when I press either of the windlass buttons.
Not worked out where the beeping is coming from.
But the windlass won't operate.
I noticed the buttons look like they need replacing - maybe moisture got in?
Looks easy enough to take out and swap in some new ones.
Not the normal Leroy it's one of these, any obvious things to look for before I call out an engineer?
Thanks
Fuse behind the helm doesn't trip and weirdly there is a beeping from in the wheelhouse when I press either of the windlass buttons.
Not worked out where the beeping is coming from.
But the windlass won't operate.
I noticed the buttons look like they need replacing - maybe moisture got in?
Looks easy enough to take out and swap in some new ones.
Not the normal Leroy it's one of these, any obvious things to look for before I call out an engineer?
Thanks
Plum
Well-known member
Yes, not the usual Leroy one. See here Leroy Somer S3000 series windlass.pdf
Some of the 760s are wired so that the winch only works when the engine is running. There is a small relay mounted on the back of the alternator so this maybe the problem. I cut the wires to the relay as I wanted to be able to use the winch in an emergency without the engine running.
Regarding beeping, do you have a device that warns of low voltage?
This is the relay that prevents use of the winch when the engine is not running https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Q3k8s4NftfFR4MnSADvY4UbqajZGQ3Cb/view?usp=drivesdk
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Pleinmont
Active member
Yes that's the one - thanks!
Mistroma
Well-known member
The switches look like the standard ones fitted to many Quick windlasses. I've seen them for sale in lots of places in the med., either Quick or Harken. They are the same internally.
The flexible top section usually goes soft in the sun and cracks, letting in water. They are pretty easy to take apart to get to the small switch inside. Just unscrew the cover and pull the upper and lower flexible sections apart to check for obvious damage. You can use a multi-meter to see if the switch works or use a piece of wire to short the switch to see if that operates the windlass.
I took the tiny switch inside apart once when there were no spares around. I cleaned it with contact cleaner and put it together again. Very fiddly but it worked for the rest of the season.
Probably worth testing the switch first but they are pretty easy to replace. These eBay ones actually look more robust than the all plastic variety. I expect the flexible material degrades just as quickly. I expect the units will unscrew fairly easily but getting inside to the connections might not be so easy. Mine are on the coach roof with good access from above and below.
1 Pair Windlass Foot Switch Marine Universal Windlass Foot Switch Up And Down | eBay
The flexible top section usually goes soft in the sun and cracks, letting in water. They are pretty easy to take apart to get to the small switch inside. Just unscrew the cover and pull the upper and lower flexible sections apart to check for obvious damage. You can use a multi-meter to see if the switch works or use a piece of wire to short the switch to see if that operates the windlass.
I took the tiny switch inside apart once when there were no spares around. I cleaned it with contact cleaner and put it together again. Very fiddly but it worked for the rest of the season.
Probably worth testing the switch first but they are pretty easy to replace. These eBay ones actually look more robust than the all plastic variety. I expect the flexible material degrades just as quickly. I expect the units will unscrew fairly easily but getting inside to the connections might not be so easy. Mine are on the coach roof with good access from above and below.
1 Pair Windlass Foot Switch Marine Universal Windlass Foot Switch Up And Down | eBay