Beginning to think we need a bigger boat

[baart]

So the current state of affairs is that we have a 30ft Hunter. This season we also have had a chance to sail on a few different boats in the 40-45ft range - charter or friends'. We have also had a force 7-8 experience in our boat. As much as our boat survived and stood to wind well I wouldn't call it a pleasant experience. On the other hand we had a chance to be in 40knt of wind in a Jeanneau Voyage 12.5 and the level of comfort and safety it provided was incredible in comparison. At no point did we feel something was out of control or required the level of focus our boat demands when it is anything above force 5. My wife enjoyed the experience fully. Obviously size does matter and as much as this Jeanneau feels too big for our needs this is the kind of safety we are looking for. So over all our appetite for more offshore experience has grown but also for sailing comfort.

This is our first boat, so the purchase in 2020 was not of the "fully informed" kind. Actually we knew nothing about boat ownership. We liked the boat, it was within the budget, didn't require much work and that was it. Now with a few thousands miles done we know a little bit more and I hope we have a rough idea of what we may want next. So the plan would be to give it another season, sell the Hunter next winter and then look for something in the 36-38ft range. Wouldn't want to go bigger than that as our son joins us less frequently now and predominantly it will be just the 2 of us with occasional guests.

So the criteria would be:
- rather heavier than lighter
- rather more ballast than less
- Headroom of 1.85m in the saloon and the galley
- No teak
- at least 2 separate cabins
- Shaft rather than sail drive
- more suitable for sailing north than Mediterranean, we prefer colder seas and less people around and longer passages rather than siting in the marina
- Not a project boat but happy to spend 2-3 years doing some upgrading
- budget up to 60k plus the upgrades but as we are still working and planning to carry on as now for at least 5 years before we go part time/online, I could be convinced to maybe get finance for some additional amount if it gets us a better boat
- Ideally it would be a boat we wouldn't outgrow too quickly. Not planning to go sailing around the world but would like to considerably increase the amount of time spend aboard. The cruising ground being more the Channel, North Sea or Baltic than the hot places. Would love to sail to Azores once though.

So looking at the market and reading other threads it feels these boats kind of meet the criteria :

- Sigma 362 ( 38 seems too powerful for 2 people and 41 too big I think)
- Countess 37 ( seems to tick a lot of boxes )
- Moody 36 (as above)
- Malo 38 ( apart from the teak deck)

Appreciate these are older boats that may require substantial amount of money spent, so maybe I need a different approach, I am happy to be corrected if my thinking here is wrong. Any suggestions please ?

 

[Bouba]

There’s only two reasons to sell a boat...you are giving up...or you want something bigger....why do think I do the lottery...it’s not to fund world peace. I can’t recommend a boat...but my advice is to get the biggest boat you can afford because you will always grow into it

 

[Concerto]

Westerly Corsair

Corsair 36 - Westerly-Wiki

 

[wonkywinch]

A friend owns a Beneteau 393 which seems quite seaworthy (not that I really know what that word means). I've done a couple of trips on it with him and think the interior layout & cockpit is very "sociable". I assume by "no teak" you mean on the deck rather than interior. I sail to spend time with friends which meant centre cockpit boats were discounted for the lack of room for entertaining in the fresh air.

 

[ashtead]

Moody 36 well received -if you favour an extra heads then the 38 moody of same era. You don’t mention a Hallberg -price maybe too high for preferred age -some have had the teak decks removed in older ones I’ve seen . I assume a fin keel is preferred compared to say an island packet keel? I guess new engine and a rerigging key?

 

[baart]

Thank you for the suggestions.

get the biggest boat you can afford because you will always grow into it

I could probably go bigger within that budget just not sure if we need more space. Or the costs bigger brings. I think I am more in the "smallest you feel comfortable with" camp

38 moody of same era. You don’t mention a Hallberg -price maybe too high for preferred age -some have had the teak decks removed in older ones I’ve seen . I assume a fin keel is preferred compared to say an island packet keel? I guess new engine and a rerigging key?

I can see the benefit of 38 over 36, definitely something to consider. Halberg as much as very desirable would probably be beyond our budget. Fin keel would be sufficient. If we were going further out IP would be a boat to consider but a long keel for what we are planning to do doesn't seem a necessity. And yes newish engine rather than the original, happy to do the rigging later if that means getting a cheaper boat in the first place.

I have also seen a couple of Oysters Heritage 37. Not sure though what kind of further investment they require.

 

[Daydream believer]

£60K sounds Ok but a friend of mine has recently bought a nice hanse 345 with a fair survey. He paid £60K after some haggling. But it has now been delivered from the west coast to the Orwell & he has committed himself to another £20K+. he can afford it but was not expecting to have to upgrade electrics, get new batteries. New rigging was on the list along with the haulouts & mast up/down. he does want new mainsail. It needs an autopilot. Then there was delivery. As he said the survey said that there was working instruments. There were but outdated. yes there are batteries, but old. He has ordered a new liferaft as the existing has limited life left.
So a 35+ ft boat may well come out over the budget. If you want to stay within the £60K you will have to buy well under that & that might be something that is not as good as you want. At least initially. Therefore, you may be better staying with the mainstream brands which might be cheaper. They do actually sail as good as the older designs.
It depends on what standard of maintenance you want. Would you be happy with old batteries that require regular charging? Outdated electrics with dubious operation etc? Knackered sails?
Having spent £80K he wondered if he would have been better buying an £80K boat. But then there may well have been bits that needed replacing & so it goes on.

 

[Stemar]

If you don't mind doing a fair bit of work - a winter project maybe, a teak deck needn't be a deal breaker. Enjoy the right boat while the teak lasts, then rip it up and put fake teak or just make good and finish with nonslip paint, and carry on enjoying the right boat.

 

[Daydream believer]

If you don't mind doing a fair bit of work - a winter project maybe, a teak deck needn't be a deal breaker. Enjoy the right boat while the teak lasts, then rip it up and put fake teak or just make good and finish with nonslip paint, and carry on enjoying the right boat.

That is a major task beyond most. It almost always looks naff if done by the DIYer as well. But it depends on what one wants from one's boat of course.

 

[E39mad]

A couple of medium displacement but reasonably fast solid boats that should fit the budget

Starlight 35 or 39
Westerly Typhoon/Regatta 37

 

[baart]

Ok, what about osmosis in older Westerly boats? Those mentioned above seem interesting but I remember looking at Merlin before we bought ours and it looked scary. Would love Starlight 39 byt I have not seen one in our price range.

I don't want a major project where I have to replace everything. So lets say something like the Corsair currently on ApolloDuck would be an option - Westerly Corsair for sale UK, Westerly boats for sale, Westerly used boat sales, Westerly Sailing Yachts For Sale 1984 Westerly Corsair 36 - Apollo Duck

 

[Laysula]

We have a Bavaria 350. Ticks all your boxes apart from the saildrive. ( What's wrong with saildrives? )

 

[RupertW]

It is above your budget but the way you felt about the hull of the Voyage 12.5 is exactly why we like our Jeanneau 42.2 which has the same hull but with an interior updated for the late 90s.

It now looks very traditional indeed but has the wider flatter stern which makes for lovely downwind sailing without the slamming upwind of more modern hulls. And we’ve been in quite extreme weather throughout the Med and cross Atlantic and felt very looked after. Almost all the time we sail with just two of us and my wife doesn’t do much sail handling at all but still very manageable with the standard biggish winches and a very stable deck to work on compared to our previous 31 footer.

If you can afford it it’s a boat you will quickly grow into and find that guests are much more at ease with their own bathroom (or shared with another couple or relation they know) and all with their own cabins. But 90 percent of the time with just two of us we can both work remotely and even have our own showers without getting in each other’s way and that’s great once you start spending more than 3 or 4 weeks as your floating home.

 

[johnalison]

You’ll know the right boat when you meet her. Of the ones you mention, the Malo is going to be the most seaworthy and a good cruising boat if not as fast round the buoys as the Sigma. No boat is going to be perfect, so my way of choosing was simply to eliminate those boat with even a single feature that I couldn’t live with, however minor.

 

[Bouba]

While my boat is not big...we have reached the limits as far as what we can afford. When a boat doubles in length, the costs square

 

[14K478]

I definitely overdid it. I sold my beautiful 37ft teak gaff cutter and set out to look for a Nicholson 43 as I felt it was time to try plastic. The 43s I saw were either knackered or too expensive but there was a beautifully maintained MOD 55 at a silly price....

so...

- rather heavier than lighter ................23 tons in "departure condition" with all tanks full

- rather more ballast than less .................Seven toms of encapsulated lead.

- Headroom of 1.85m in the saloon and the galley................... and everywhere else

- No teak.... Saloon doors and cap rail, so a little

- at least 2 separate cabins .... FAIL, unless you count the forecabin.

- Shaft rather than sail drive ...............yes

- more suitable for sailing north than Mediterranean, we prefer colder seas and less people around and longer passages rather than siting in the marina ... boat had been round the block twice before I bought her

- Not a project boat but happy to spend 2-3 years doing some upgrading ...........that's every boat!

- budget up to 60k plus the upgrades but as we are still working and planning to carry on as now for at least 5 years before we go part time/online, I could be convinced to maybe get finance for some additional amount if it gets us a better boat..... based on my experience - keep looking and you may find as I did that the bigger ones are better value

- Ideally it would be a boat we wouldn't outgrow too quickly. Not planning to go sailing around the world but would like to considerably increase the amount of time spend aboard. The cruising ground being more the Channel, North Sea or Baltic than the hot places. Would love to sail to Azores once though.... yes exactly

 

[johnalison]

While my boat is not big...we have reached the limits as far as what we can afford. When a boat doubles in length, the costs square

I think that cube would be closer, given that that is the difference in volume and displacement.

 

[lustyd]

Our SO36.2 fits the bill, has a deep 1.9m keel which gives great stability. We have the owners cabin version which is incredibly comfortable with enormous bunks, and with heating we use it all year

 

[Graham376]

We've had a Moody 376 for 20 years, which ticks most if not all of OP's boxes and some sell within budget. Two double cabins both with en-suite heads.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

https://www.boatshop24.com/boat/1991-bavaria-390-8919073/