Bavaria lost keel again

jonjo5 said:
Pantaenius is an odd business they try to create an illusion they are the superior yacht insurer for special yacht owners. Their penalty insurance rate for Bavaria might well be a marketing trick to fool you into believing that you are special enough to give them your money.

After 10 years of frequenting the YBW forums I have never heard your theory about tiered insurance rates by yacht brand. Many here are motivated to throw ignorant mud balls at Bavaria, if this theory about insurance rates had substance it would have been raised before.
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We must accept, that when "Bavaria" is mentioned Tranona goes into overdrive and loses all sense of proportion. Best than to accept it as one of his little foibles, for which we love him, rather than castigate him.
 
>Does not surprise me that a NZ based survey would show a higher proportion of steel boats cruising the Pacific, for two reasons. Firstly as already indicated steel has distinct advantages in that environment. Secondly, there is a history of DIY boat building (in both NZ and Australia) and steel is a good material for this.

Sorry I wasn't clear. The survey wasn't about New Zealand boats it was boats passing through New Zealand on their way around the world.
 
rib said:
several grounded bavs
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Well I am afraid you seem to suffer from an inability to measure things properly. The inner reinforcements that the keel bolts also go through is thicker than that, never mind the hull itself.

Suggest you go back to the video of the factory posted earlier and look at the shot of the keel bolts and then explain why they are so long if they only have to go through 4mm.
 
no you miss read me.after grounding whilst in for repair it was found on several bavs that the area around the keel was in places down to 4mm !that said and done i belive the bav has a place in the market which is obvious by the amount sold,sailing schools love them partly due to big discounts and are easy to sail.i dont belive any promo film is anything to go by.i have sailed many bavs over thousands of miles in varying seas they have allways got me back(ignoring flexing bulkheads. uncomfortable ride. slamming.and being thrown several feet across a large saloons)they have a place and fill it well.but imo some of the enthusiast replys are,nt quite true.you pays your money and make your choice
 
rib said:
any way they are only 4mm thick in the keel area so prehaps that was why it worked loose and fell off
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As an earlier poster said, the entertainment value of such threads is that they are a honey pot for the lunatic fringe of internet surfers.

I have owned a Bavaria Match 35 since 2005, a period which overlapped the Adriatic Match 42 loss, so naturally this subject interests me. I am quoting Rib's post not in an attempt to reply to such a contemptible individual but for the broader education of other readers.

4mm is such an absurd claim it lacks any credibility, the Match 42 Drucker report found 13mm of laminate in the keel support area and then went into a lot of material science mumbo jumbo to justify this thickness. Even so the manufacturer recall of Match 38's and 42's resulted in another 10mm of laminate being applied to this hull keel attachment area.

Knowledgeable owners of earlier generation GRP yachts will probably be surprised by this 13mm hull thickness. They should bear in mind their "evergreen" 1970 vintage yachts were designed with a 1960's monocoque mindset, plus a bit of bracing thrown in for good measure or not enough as was the case with the first batch of Nicholson 32s. Modern fin keel yachts produced since the 1980's have more in common with older wooden ship design, i.e. the hull is a skin around a structural frame. One critical element of this structural frame is the bilge tray mouldling bonded to the hull. The bilge tray moulding takes up much of the keel loading stresses.
 
rib said:
it was found on several bavs that the area around the keel was in places down to 4mm
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"It". That is conveniently ambiguous.

But there is a much greater ambiguity in your post. You seem convinced about your 4mm factoid but then go onto claim...
rib said:
i have sailed many bavs over thousands of miles in varying seas
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You expect us to believe that you voluntarily headed off on extended voyages in multiple Bavaria's knowing the keel might tear away from a 4mm paper thin hull at any moment?
 
rib said:
i have sailed many bavs over thousands of miles in varying seas they have allways got me back(ignoring flexing bulkheads. uncomfortable ride. slamming.and being thrown several feet across a large saloons)
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This thread has followed the same pattern as many others. Once the primary issue has been debated others use the thread to voice their general dislike of modern yacht designs. The new entrant to yachting might conclude in error that these are Bavaria specific problems.

80% of yachts sold in Europe since 2000 share these same issues:

  • uncomfortable ride: An unavoidable consequence of big hull volume and light displacement. Bavarias are no different to the majority of mass market yachts in this respect.
  • slamming: An unavoidable consequence of a round bottom fin keel hull and a shallow displacement foreward. Bavarias are no different to the majority of mass market yachts in this respect.
  • being thrown several feet across a large saloon: Yes big wide saloons, it is a problem as featured in all modern mass market yachts. Bavaria and all other major manufacturers are responding to market demand.
As to Rim's other assertion that sea schools buy Bavarias because they are easy to sail, wrong again. Like all modern yachts with a wide beam aft, low keel weight and a coachroof mounted main sheet, they can be a real pain to sail once the wind starts to gust over F4.

In closing I am happy to report that my Bavaria Match 35 suffers none of these problems, it is a veritable narrow beamed pocket rocket, with 34% ballast ratio extending down to 7 feet 2" and an incockpit mainsheet :)
 
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not sure of the value

well away from any attempt at statistics, but FWIW: during three years of an Atlantic circuit (admittedly without caribbean) we saw 5/10 Bavaria (I have not counted them, not knowing how crucial this might be), from 36 to 50ft, some had already one circumnavigation and were leaving for the second one, some were at their fourth, fifth Atlantic crossing, all owners were very happy with their choice.
Always FWIW, we saw five Hallberg Rassy in three years.
Just numbers, I am not a Bavaria nor HR owner and never will be of either one brand.

HR or Bav, whatever boat suits her owner dreams looks ok to me :)
 
oh dear oh dear ..im back for a short while,where is it isaid i knew they were 4mm thick then sailed many miles on them,prehaps i stopped sailing them when i found out several were i repeat several bavs i do not mean to imply all or the older ones,all boat builders can do cock ups but if your only building a few then it will proberly be found quite quickly if your building hundreds/thousands how many go thru the system before it raises it head(did hr really order the wrong resin/poly/fibre once and still build boats with it)as to they being a bit of a challange to handle ....come on..close quater work under engine and sail is a doddle,i ask the question again does anybody know of a 47 coded for ocean crossings i have a personal issue with this one.in case you cant take in what you read 4m thick in places is not the whole hull and to the the helm and emergency tiller i can only state personal experiance hope you checked yours and i bet the tiller was not welded in side the box
 
But at least you have the consolation of being an expert in modern boat construction methods.

You've done well.
 
you will have to remind me where i stated that ?i know nothing of modern boat building but i know when something is broken or does work as well as something else.and yes i retired at 36 so it wasnt bad after all and im presently just cruising around for a few years,and you how did you get on
 
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