Bavaria in administration?

[photodog]

They'll limp along for a few more years before they bow to the inevitable. Too many boats chasing too few owners in my opinion.

Maybe in the U.K.... but not in China. Leisure sailing is taking off over their, and even minor participation by locals adds up to big big numbers... there were predictions around a couple of years ago that around 100,000 new yachts would be introduced in China from 2012 to 2020.....

Which is an astonishing number if they get anywhere near that...

 

[JumbleDuck]

They'll limp along for a few more years before they bow to the inevitable. Too many boats chasing too few owners in my opinion.

It looks as if the purchasers are turn-round people, so I expect the plan is to close down as much of the unprofitable part (the German end, basically) as possible and then pass what remains onto someone else.

 

[[2068]]

I don't know about the sailing yachts, but on the Mobo side of things, the growth area under 35ft these days is something with outboards.
Bavaria have no outboard boats at all.

Also, there are a load of models that look incredibly close in size to me.
S29, S30, S32, S33, S36 !

A good starting point for a turnaround would be "product rationalisation".

.

 

[MapisM]

Maybe in the U.K.... but not in China. Leisure sailing is taking off over their, and even minor participation by locals adds up to big big numbers... there were predictions around a couple of years ago that around 100,000 new yachts would be introduced in China from 2012 to 2020.....

Which is an astonishing number if they get anywhere near that...

Well, unless according to that prediction the demand was going to be irrelevant from 2012 to 2017, and then skyrocket from 2018 to 2020, Bavaria don't seem to have profited a lot so far from that exploding market, I reckon... :ambivalence:
Btw, I'm a bit skeptic that anything in their range could appeal the karaoke minded new rich folks in PRC, but that's just IMHO, of course.

 

[dunedin]

It looks as if the purchasers are turn-round people, so I expect the plan is to close down as much of the unprofitable part (the German end, basically) as possible and then pass what remains onto someone else.

Yes, good that they are keeping going, but not ideal new owners. Don’t seem to have any particular boating affinity but are specialists in “recovery” of generic businesses in trouble. Hence any solutions likely to be generic also - which tends to include cost reduction and asset sales as priorities rather than product innovation and growth, which a trade buyer might have been more interested in.

 

[MapisM]

not ideal new owners

I'm afraid there's no such thing as "ideal" in absolute terms.
Those chaps are probably ideal from the banks/financial investors viewpoint, and sadly nowadays that matters much more than considering what might be ideal from the viewpoint of workers, suppliers, customers, and any other long term considerations in general.

Not that I would be very optimistic ref. the chances of turning around the Bavaria business on a sound industrial basis, if I'm honest.
And the fact that no trade buyers were interested supports my (very superficial) impression, sort of.
But I'm just saying... :ambivalence:

 

[JumbleDuck]

Also, there are a load of models that look incredibly close in size to me. S29, S30, S32, S33, S36 !

A cursory read of the motorboat forums suggests that it's a world where the minutiae of distinction between models is as important is it is in the company car world. "Oh, you've got a Ghia. That's nice. I've got the Ghia XL myself. Had the Ghia a couple of years ago".

I suspect that an easy path for annual incremental upgrades is an important aspect of a motorboat brand.

 

[[2068]]

A cursory read of the motorboat forums suggests that it's a world where the minutiae of distinction between models is as important is it is in the company car world. "Oh, you've got a Ghia. That's nice. I've got the Ghia XL myself. Had the Ghia a couple of years ago".
I suspect that an easy path for annual incremental upgrades is an important aspect of a motorboat brand.

In Howards Way, 1986, possibly so.

 

[photodog]

Well, unless according to that prediction the demand was going to be irrelevant from 2012 to 2017, and then skyrocket from 2018 to 2020, Bavaria don't seem to have profited a lot so far from that exploding market, I reckon... :ambivalence:
Btw, I'm a bit skeptic that anything in their range could appeal the karaoke minded new rich folks in PRC, but that's just IMHO, of course.

It’s the brand.... by way of comparison SAIC bought The MG brand in 2005... last year they sold around 4 thousand MG cars in Europe, versus 135 thousand (approx) in China, and are set to double that number in 2018.

The Bavaria brand has history, that can be easily turned into sales in China, And the market is potentially twice the size of Europe combined, and is amost totally unexploited. Building in China could also unlock potential savings on build costs for other markets... lowering the cost of entry and boosting sales in the BRICS, and even potentially in Europe.

 

[guardian]

It looks as if the purchasers are turn-round people, so I expect the plan is to close down as much of the unprofitable part (the German end, basically) as possible and then pass what remains onto someone else.

Hence my comment, all that'll be left after the VC company has worked its 'magic' will be the 50 foot plus sailboats, cats & motorboats, the operation will then move to China/Vietnam to be manufactured from there where the QC will be non-existant. Plus I can't see Chinese buyers taking up the slack in any numbers that would keep Bavaria going in any serious way, if what i've read about their economy is anything to go on.

Also seeing others such as Beneteau surviving by govt subsidy and re-packaging their debt every few years, i think (certainly in the boat-building world) the end of large scale consumption in this sector is very much over.

I shall watch with interest...................................

 

[JumbleDuck]

The Bavaria brand has history, that can be easily turned into sales in China,

Hmm. Good enough boats, but about as far away from an aspirational brand as you could find. You'll notice that the Chinese market is for MGs, not Austins.

 

[DoubleEnder]

“If something is unsustainable, it will not last”
I know there is some nuance to the discussions here about the future of yachting, how to deal with the overhang of old GRP boats, the affordability or lack thereof of boat ownership.... but I do think there would broadly be a consensus that there are more than enough cruising yachts already in existence up to say 15m loa to satisfy likely demand for some time to come. In Europe. I’m not an expert but I just don’t believe the Chinese market will buy all the surplus production.

The charter fleets will require regular updating and refreshing, there will be a good market for some specialised and small builders, but there is a much diminished need for large scale mass production of new small cruising yachts. So it is gradually coming to a halt. Good news probably, though sad for employees and suppliers.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The charter fleets will require regular updating and refreshing, there will be a good market for some specialised and small builders, but there is a much diminished need for large scale mass production of new small cruising yachts. So it is gradually coming to a halt. Good news probably, though sad for employees and suppliers.

I agree. It's also due to the shift from ownership to chartering. For the same number of people spending the same time sailing you need a lot fewer boats used 40 weeks per year than you need when they are used 2 weeks per year.

 

[halcyon]

Hmm. Good enough boats, but about as far away from an aspirational brand as you could find. You'll notice that the Chinese market is for MGs, not Austins.

First make to start trade talks with the Chinese was BL Japan pushed in by offering the Chinese the design of a little van.

Austin etc are held by BMW still, LRJ ( JLR ) own the Rover brand, MG was the only brand the Chinese pinched.

Brian

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Think Tata have the Rover brand, not BMW.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Austin etc are held by BMW still, LRJ ( JLR ) own the Rover brand, MG was the only brand the Chinese pinched.

My point exactly.

 

[Heckler]

They'll limp along for a few more years before they bow to the inevitable. Too many boats chasing too few owners in my opinion.

It was mentioned earlier on and I thought every one was aware that when the original owners were bought out they were paid handsomely and it was that debt that was the millstone. There also was talk at the time alng similar lines. If that debt has been dropped then I think a recovery is possible

 

[JumbleDuck]

It was mentioned earlier on and I thought every one was aware that when the original owners were bought out they were paid handsomely and it was that debt that was the millstone. There also was talk at the time alng similar lines. If that debt has been dropped then I think a recovery is possible

I think that debt went when Bain lost their billion. The troubles now are cumulative since that was wiped out, which is not a good sign. They have - from the videos - an incredibly impressive factory, but it's making about as half as many boats as it could, and that's not good. I was at the Southampton BS yesterday, and as far as I could see they (or their agents) were exhibiting two rather nondescript monohulls and lots of great big gin palace catamarans. There, I thought, is a dealer who has very little interest in the sailing monohull side of the range.

 

[Tranona]

There, I thought, is a dealer who has very little interest in the sailing monohull side of the range.

That is wide of the mark. The Bavaria dealer is very strong on monohulls, particularly as the Nautec cats have a different dealer. The cat factory was unaffected by the German problems so new boats from the factory are on display.

The shortage of boats from the regular Cruiser and Vision range is simply because that is all that is available as there is no support from the factory and the display boats are stock boats. The very latest C45 (as tested in this month's YM) is on display however.

Not ideal at the main selling show in the UK, but some consolation in that its French competitors both had only limited boats from their range on display, although Hanse had a good choice.

 

[JumbleDuck]

That is wide of the mark. The Bavaria dealer is very strong on monohulls, particularly as the Nautec cats have a different dealer. The cat factory was unaffected by the German problems so new boats from the factory are on display.

The shortage of boats from the regular Cruiser and Vision range is simply because that is all that is available as there is no support from the factory and the display boats are stock boats. The very latest C45 (as tested in this month's YM) is on display however.

Not ideal at the main selling show in the UK, but some consolation in that its French competitors both had only limited boats from their range on display, although Hanse had a good choice.

Maybe. They just didn't seem at all interested in selling the monohulls, which looked rather sad and abandoned. Can't blame them, though, if they don't want to invest much time in a product lines whose days may well be numbered. There seemed to be lots of Beneteaus.