cmedsailor
Well-Known Member
Are there any more recent news in relation to Bavaria administration? Anybody knows? I cannot find anything on the internet.
Thanks
Thanks
Bavaria in administration?
- Thread starter bitbaltic
- Start date
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
It's not looking good. Seems that they are looking for a buyer, but the front runner has pulled out and so negotiations are re-opening with the rest of the pack.
https://www.br.de/nachrichten/bayer...bernahmeverhandlungen-ziehen-sich-hin,R2H1o2O
https://www.br.de/nachrichten/bayer...bernahmeverhandlungen-ziehen-sich-hin,R2H1o2O
XDC
Well-Known Member
My marina has given me two free tickets to SIBS so we thought we’d go this year. Surprised to see Bavaria are exhibiting through Clipper. I guess they could be clearing out stock boats.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
According to the article I linked to, they have completed 200+ boats since going into administration. It seems that they are trying to keep production going as normally as possible.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
No, they were still building boats until the August shutdown. The boats on display will almost certainly be Clipper stock boats, but they invariably are.
Whether they will be in a position to take new orders though only time will tell.
Sailfree
Well-Known Member
Sad as while many criticized Bavaria they were good boats well built to a price and survived well on the charter market so more robust than many production boats.
Can be justifiably criticized for their appalling handling of the Match keel problem but IMHO a good economic boat unfairly criticized that enabled many to start sailing.
Can be justifiably criticized for their appalling handling of the Match keel problem but IMHO a good economic boat unfairly criticized that enabled many to start sailing.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
The Match incident was over 10 years and two owners ago. The owners of the remaining boats were eventually treated well.
I have no doubt they will come back in some form, but suspect it will not be in the smaller sailboat market. Smallest boat at SIBS will be a 37. Growth markets are MOBOs, Cats and 50'+ Med sunbeds.
photodog
Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
I had a interesting conversation with someone at our marina who knows about these sorts of things... ie what we were conversing about... and we were discussing the demographics of sailing in the U.K. and the odvious lack of families at our marina... he pointed out that the average age of a berth holder at our marina.. was increasing by 5 months every year...
Which was astonishing... but brings me in a roundabout way to to an observation about Bavaria...
Their growth in the 00’s was based on a growth in affluence which allowed families to participate in the sport... either via charter or ownership, and their boats reflected this family focus IMHO...
With the family market simply disappearing, an attempt to move upmarket to follow the grey money, seems like a tall order given the brand values that they now have...
Are we in a chicken and egg situation mind? Could the brand be revived around a family focus again with the same formula from the early 00’s, something which their prices seem to have abandoned.. ?
The demographics of sailing in Europe at least are going to fall off a cliff in the next decade without bringing in families... but the costs are simply too high for them...
Food for thought anyways.
guardian
Well-Known Member
Sailing will never come back to the peak levels once seen as there's no longer the middle class to support it, as the wider economy slowly becomes 'uberised' in terms of working practices and wage levels the demographic that once upon a time supported multiple UK builders simply doesn't exist.
Plus don't discount the secondhand market and its effect of new boat sales, whilst its still generally dreadful for people selling its still very much a buyers market.
If Bavaria cant make it work that tells you everything you need to know about where the industry' headed.............
Resolution
Well-Known Member
Fascinating subject. What makes you think that the demographics for SAILING (my emphasis) are heading for a cliff edge? I would agree that private yacht ownership is tending to decrease, but question whether the overall number of sailing days afloat is doing the same. My guess is that the vast number of charter holidays eg in the Med have led to an overall increase in usage, and I do not see any reason for that to change yet. Modern young still sail , but just don't want the hassle of owning their own boat.
More food for thought!
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
I'm with you there. Although I haven't seen any statistics to support it, it's hard to believe that the tens of thousands of UK people who charter in nice sunny places each year would otherwise be flogging around the Solent or the Clyde. Looking round most UK seaside resorts it would be hard to believe that anyone aged under 65 ever goes on holiday ...
I'm in my early fifties. I rarely meet anyone younger than me sailing on the West Coast of Scotland.
Kurrawong_Kid
Well-Known Member
And probably no bad thing either. There are many many older boats that can be “recycled” by restoration without the use of huge amounts of money or effort. There is no need for “new models” every other year from the likes of Bavaria, Hanse etc. A contraction in the marine trade would be a very good thing. Berthing costs could be forced down, anchorages no more crowded, boat sizes more restrained, less “dream buyers” and so on. Let’s get back to yachting as it used to be in the 1970’s: for those who just really enjoy sailing, or motoryachting with a proper seagoing vessel,!
Seajet
...
There's a lot of sense in that; but at my club at the apex of Chichester and Langstone harbours, we're now getting an encouraging trickle of new young cruiser owners in old small but good boats, and a VERY busy Junior and dinghy section - racing and cruising ' fun events ' so hopefully some will keep to it and end up buying cruisers.
I'd be very happy to see the end of clueless yuppies buying a 37 footer as first boat...
I'd be very happy to see the end of clueless yuppies buying a 37 footer as first boat...
Scolly
Well-Known Member
I agree, instant ban on the use of electronic Nav aids, decent lifejackets, all sailing clothing to be either navy blue itchy wool and anything waterproof MUST be constructed of plastic coated canvas and available only in bright yellow.
No outboards over 3 1/3 HP and manual start with built-in oil leaks.
Onboard food restricted to any fray bentos tinned product. In addition all vessels must be able to produce mouldy bedding within 24hrs of any rain shower and built to ensure they are as cramped and uncomfortable as possible.
Marinas must remove any floating pontoons along with elect and water, access to your boat is restricted to using a dinghy which must be dragged across at least 25 yards of thick black mud before launching. No waterside pub may sell food except crisps and all male children must wear short trousers until the age of 11.
What a wonderful deluded world to live in
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Prepare to be very happy, then.
Future clueless yuppies might well stop buying 37 footers and look at 37 meters instead... :ambivalence:
maby
Well-Known Member
Miaow!
Tranona
Well-Known Member
There has been a slow decline in sales of new boats in the 30-40' range since the 2008 crash. You are right about the family type market in the 2000s. In 2001 you could get a well equipped Bav 34 on the water for under £70k. In 2017 the current equivalent would have been £125k. Inflation in that period was approx 50% so the current price is £20k or roughly 20% higher in real terms. This is despite the real savings through efficiency although also affected by the fall in the value of the £. In other makes of boats, particularly the more upmarket ones such as the Scandinavians the increase in real terms has been even greater.
Set that against effectively stagnant wages, tough borrowing restrictions (even though interest rates are low) and the availability of good used boats at much lower prices and you can see why new sales have plummeted. Many of the new boat buyers are retirees like me with cash, but even these are struggling with lower payoffs, difficulty in downsizing houses to release capital etc.
At the same time the traditional charter market is stagnant as operators keep boats longer and the demand is shifting to larger boats, or in the Caribbean at least towards cats.
So, not a happy place to be at the moment. Difficult to know what would stimulate the market as most obvious things like basic spec versions have been tried and failed. In Bavaria's case the factory has been geared up to the sub 40' boats whereas now the strong demand is for the newer large boats which they could not make fast enough.
Scolly
Well-Known Member
Yup !!
Blue Sunray
Well-Known Member
:encouragement: Well said, there are too many delusional old fossils about.
Kurrawong_Kid
Well-Known Member
I admit to being an old fossil, but an up to date one! Many of the sound but neglected boats of the 1990’s can be restored. The new boats of today are not that much better and, in some respects (eg. MDF “woodwork”) not as good. Modern gear, instruments,winches etc. cost the same whether on a new boat or old. Perhaps there is a market for a yard refurbishing Moodys or Centaurs or Hardys or similar popular boats. Jeremy Rogers has started such a trend with rebuilt Contessa 32’s. There is no need for new boat factories at present
