Bavaria in administration?

[Rob_Webb]

Crikey, hard to get a straight answer here isn’t it?

Lots of comments about dodgy dealers but that’s not what I asked - this is the manufacturer. Apparently my friend’s boat is part finished but now locked up and inaccessible.

The contract might be with the dealer but how can the dealer fulfill now?

So now that?

 

[Tomahawk]

Is this the replacement for drift a thread?

 

[MapisM]

Crikey, hard to get a straight answer here isn’t it?

That's because there's none, I'm afraid.
The best anyone can realistically do for your friend is wish him/her good luck... :ambivalence:

 

[JumbleDuck]

Lots of comments about dodgy dealers but that’s not what I asked - this is the manufacturer. Apparently my friend’s boat is part finished but now locked up and inaccessible.

Is it a Bavaria? If so, all the German reports seem to agree that boats already ordered or started will be built to schedule.

 

[Zing]

Crikey, hard to get a straight answer here isn’t it?

Lots of comments about dodgy dealers but that’s not what I asked - this is the manufacturer. Apparently my friend’s boat is part finished but now locked up and inaccessible.

The contract might be with the dealer but how can the dealer fulfill now?

So now that?

I got the title assigned to me on the first payment, with a removal of the obligation to make further payments in the case of insolvency. Not ideal, but better than nothing and a lot cheaper than a bank guarantee, which is not always possible.

 

[dom]

I got the title assigned to me on the first payment, with a removal of the obligation to make further payments in the case of insolvency. Not ideal, but better than nothing and a lot cheaper than a bank guarantee, which is not always possible.

It would be interesting to know how that was specified. Not a lawyer, but title is hard to pass on a future asset that has yet to be built.

Also, almost unheard of for a boatyard to pass full title against only a deposit? And if no more payments due in the event of insolvency, a charge would open the possibility of receiving an almost completed boat for only the deposit?

 

[Zing]

It would be interesting to know how that was specified. Not a lawyer, but title is hard to pass on a future asset that has yet to be built.

Also, almost unheard of for a boatyard to pass full title against only a deposit? And if no more payments due in the event of insolvency, a charge would open the possibility of receiving an almost completed boat for only the deposit?

The words I used were not so brief of course. It was along the lines of: once the hull was commenced then it and all fittings and components installed would become mine. I was still obliged to make stage payments, so full title to a part boat only would pass on part payment and then that is only of practical use in the case of insolvency.

 

[Tranona]

The words I used were not so brief of course. It was along the lines of: once the hull was commenced then it and all fittings and components installed would become mine. I was still obliged to make stage payments, so full title to a part boat only would pass on part payment and then that is only of practical use in the case of insolvency.

This is similar to the BMF contract for a new build which I used to use when I worked for a custom boat builder. Title was passed according to stage payments, usually after a surveyor's report of progress. It was also used by Westerly when they were in their final iteration which is why buyers with a boat in build were able to extract their boats and get them finished elsewhere. Oyster will also have used this.

However, as I said I considered it but as dom points out it is difficult to have title to something that does not physically exist. Bavaria build simple boats like my 33 literally in a week from hull moulding to completion. Normally they require final payment at the beginning of the week, but I negotiated final payment on completion and ready to ship as evidenced by the documents. Worked OK.

Of course if the build is a protracted one then passing title in stages might make sense.

 

[Tranona]

Is it a Bavaria? If so, all the German reports seem to agree that boats already ordered or started will be built to schedule.

Not quite true and it will depend on when the boat is due for completion. The cut off date is currently (according to the press release) end of June.

Would guess boats due for build or completion after that would still be a worry for the buyers.

 

[pvb]

Not quite true and it will depend on when the boat is due for completion. The cut off date is currently (according to the press release) end of June.

Would guess boats due for build or completion after that would still be a worry for the buyers.

In post 181, he said "Apparently my friend’s boat is part finished but now locked up and inaccessible." This sounds strange, because Bavaria complete the whole production process in a matter of days, as you said.

 

[Blue Sunray]

Sorry, so you did! Also sorry to say you're not right; the cowboys are now operating I imagine as a sole trader type outfit, with no limited company status.

Glad that's been sorted out. Come on then @JumbleDuck, where's my cash.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Glad that's been sorted out. Come on then @JumbleDuck, where's my cash.

I need better evidence. Like the name of the operation, the name of the people and conclusive proof that they are not, for example, using a limited liability company owned by other people to work through. Spouses are quite common for that sort of dodge, I gather.

 

[dunedin]

OLD THREAD WARNING

But given that some of the interim arrangements were to end June, which is looming up soon, any news on progress with a reconstruction of the business / ownership?

 

[Sticky Fingers]

I'm an owner affected by this (marginally). I've asked Clipper again, no response as yet. If I learn more I'll post it here.

 

[pvb]

I'm an owner affected by this (marginally). I've asked Clipper again, no response as yet. If I learn more I'll post it here.

Are you really affected? Your contract surely is with Clipper, who are responsible for any warranty repairs (unless they go out of business...).

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Are you really affected? Your contract surely is with Clipper, who are responsible for any warranty repairs (unless they go out of business...).

well I thought that but they are dependent on Bavaria for some spares and I assume funding. I do know that all my remaining warranty work remains undone.

 

[pvb]

well I thought that but they are dependent on Bavaria for some spares and I assume funding. I do know that all my remaining warranty work remains undone.

I self-funded my warranty work after the wretched Bavaria dealer I bought from (one of Clipper's sub-dealers) ceased trading after extracting all the money from the business. They're still trading, from the same premises and under the same name, just without the "Ltd" status. Beware of SWUK....

 

[dunedin]

Thanks scala - yes must be worrying for many to have no news yet. Hopefully there will be some positive news soon.

And Clipper must be suffering unless / until their main boat supplier’s future is secured. Must be tricky for them to do any new business.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The most recent news I can find is this, from Bayern Rundfunk four days ago: https://www.br.de/nachrichten/unterfranken/inhalt/bavaria-yachtbau-verkauf-steht-bevor-100.html

Summary: Several buyers have viewed the company, the creditors have OKed materials purchases so deliveries for this season are going ahead and only 5% of the workforce has been laid off ... so far.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Thanks scala - yes must be worrying for many to have no news yet. Hopefully there will be some positive news soon.

And Clipper must be suffering unless / until their main boat supplier’s future is secured. Must be tricky for them to do any new business.

I think that's right. Reality for me is that the issues I have are modest, I have no funds at risk unlike some, and some problems I can (and have) fixed for myself. I'd rather not have to and I think this is a poor reflection of the state of boat sales "industry" today, but I made a choice and I'm OK with that.

As it is, I have my boat, it meets the spec I agreed, I like it, it floats and works, nothing major is broken, my money is safe, and I can go sailing. Others may not be so fortunate. So on the whole, OK. I hope that Bav come out from this as a stronger company., to the benefit of owners and retailers.