Bavaria 34 .... perfomance and suitability for north sea

[dom]

There's an old saying that a boat won't sail to windward unless it heels easily. Some older boats, such as those with lots of tumble home, were designed to be sailed well-heeled, but others, such as my last boat -a Sadler29- sail better more upright. What you regard as a good cruising boat is a matter of choice and ultimately a good design will be a compromise. Personally, I prefer a boat that doesn't need to be reefed early, even if the price is sailing at more heel, but good windward sailing and large cabin volumes are not easily combined.

Absolutely not seeking to be controversial here, but "this notion represents some of the biggest bullshit to found on the pontoons today!" That is according to Jean Marie Finot, designer of more Vendee Globe and other fast yachts than one can think of.

If I recall his speech correctly, he argued that the claim is true in the limited case of a semi-protected bay running a chop which would unsettle a wider boat. He offered Dragons as the epitome of such thinking.

He went on to argue that in the absence of a rating rule, power is prime and that power increases broadly in line with the cube of beam whereas drag closer to the square. He argued that the ultimate constraint comes in the form of rig height, although this can to some extent be ameliorated with square-top mains. Foils are a natural evolution in this thinking.

I can also say that (unfair as the comparison is) when hammering to windward against a big blow, something like an Open 50 would rip apart any traditional design of similar proportions.

Edit: apols for thread drift. Obviously nothing to do with a Bav 34

 

[Ravi]

I have always found the Bavs that I have chartered to have good quality finish and well built. There is undoubtedly a bit of a uninformed snobbish anti-Bavaria chatter (especially, in the UK) at the yacht club bar but that just means that their prices seem a bit lower.

About their suitability for the North Sea.
My criterion for North Sea sailing would be -:
1. The ability to dry out, since there are very few non-tidal harbours and refuges between East Anglia and the Shetlands. If you are running for shelter anywhere between Sunderland and Edinburgh and the tide is unfavourable, your options are pretty nonexistent with a 1.7m keel. If you plan to keep your boat in one of the deep marinas (which are invariably up a tidal river or on tidal locks or bars) then this is less of an issue. But. if you want to plan multi-day passages along the coast, a fin keel limits your options. So a fin keel Bavaria may not be ideal in this respect.

2. A boat that can cope with the bigger lumpy seas and huge North Sea swells . i.e. A boat that is not just comfortable in big seas but is a 'dry' boat. A deep centre cockpit would give you this. Most of the Bav charters that I have done are in Greece where sea state was not an issue. The couple of times that I have chartered on the West coast of Scotland, the Bavarias (36 ft and 39 ft) were OK in seas but not particularly impressive. And a little wet.

3. With the less clement weather in this part of the world some sort of inside helm position is a big plus (but this can be solved with a remote control for the autohelm.)

4. Stuff like furling genoas, jack stays and cockpit reefing are nice to have on any boat but in the North Sea more so.

So, a long keeled fishing trawler, then!

There is a reason that there are so many bilge/twin keelers on this coast. A few years ago, I saw someone had a lifting keel Sadler 32, locally, which I still think is a very clever boat for this coast. A boat with the ability to sail fast through muck to shelter where you can take the ground.

Personally, I've got an ancient cat that draws about 40cm with the boards up . It ticks all the boxes but doesn't have anywhere near the interior comfort of a Bavaria.

I've had lovely med sailing in a Bavaria and I have no doubt that any fin keel Bav would give you very pleasant sailing in the North Sea but your options for mooring and extended passages would be more limited.

 

[jmuir1]

I've owned a few boats, small albin vega and a westerly fulmar. I would say the build quality was better in both, currently own a Bavaria an older heavier one which would be fine across the North Sea but I've been plagued by deck leaks. All of these were due to poor sealant....silicone used and/or careless workmanship...... My earlier boats had no real problems with leaks. An earlier post said they are by to a very high standard....perhaps in some areas and maybe newer models. The Moody's are built well, solid and a good track record. Perhaps not the fastest boat but the older 376 would be ideal in my mind for your needs but perhaps not as nice as the modern Bavaria's inside

 

[wully1]

Leaks in a Moody are very difficult to find and fix as they are so ‘well built’ is often impossible to see where it’s coming from never mind fix it..

 

[Just_sayin']

Leaks in a Moody are very difficult to find and fix as they are so ‘well built’ is often impossible to see where it’s coming from never mind fix it..

My marina neighbour will laugh at that.

Probably ???

 

[Pete7]

This doesn't impress me! (Give me a full length encapsulated keel anytime).

Do they make any long keeled yachts in Europe anymore? Don't remember seeing any at the last Southampton boat show, which might explain the lack of demand for them.

 

[wully1]

Do they make any long keeled yachts in Europe anymore? Don't remember seeing any at the last Southampton boat show, which might explain the lack of demand for them.

Evolution.....

Im sure that if the boatbuilders and designers who innovated and built the early sailing boats had the access to modern knowledge and materials then pilot cutters would have been foiling mono hulls..

 

[coopec]

Do they make any long keeled yachts in Europe anymore? Don't remember seeing any at the last Southampton boat show, which might explain the lack of demand for them.

I did a quick look and sadly I think you are right. My favorite was the Hans Christian but that ceased production in 2017.

I think trends in design are probably dictated more by cost than demand. But who needs a blue water yacht when you basically day sail?

Island Packet were still in business in 2016

ai

 

[Koeketiene]

I think trends in design are probably dictated more by cost than demand. But who needs a blue water yacht when you basically day sail?

Nail on the head.

A friend of mine used to work for a boat builder (the make is no longer around).
He confided to me a couple of years ago that untill the late 80s early 90s most boats were designed and built to go to sea at any time and in any weather.
Then boat builders 'figured out' that the large majority of their clients didn't really go out in anything above a F4-5.
Taking this into account allowed for a lot of economies to be made.