Bavaria 34 .... perfomance and suitability for north sea

I have chartered Bavs a bunch of times and I would have no safety concerns that are specific to the brand.

We had a 50 once in Greece that was a total dog. I put that down to being poorly rigged (loose backstay with no adjustment available). We had a 44 another time that went tolerably well.

Personally I like something with a bit more righting moment and a slightly sleeker hull for less drag and windage.. My belief is most of the Dufours/Beneteaus/Jeanneas have tended to be a bit quicker. That'll mean you do more sailing and less motoring in a force 3; also probably a bit better able to beat in a force 7 if you really want.

But I can't see a problem. As others have said, if it's well-kept, you start with a good survey, you haul-out regularly, and you are prudent after (ahem) incidents, I can't see why a Bavaria isn't a safe reliable boat in any conditions you are likely to face.
 
I sailed a Bav 34 once and it really wasn't that great on the wind, although a race background may predispose me to being a tad harsh in this respect.

That said, final leg was a roughish downhill F7/8 sail from Alderney, across Lyme Bay and on to Dartmouth. Somewhat to my surprise, not a bother to the boat which happily sat on AP most of the way. It didn't want to surf but no one ever said it would :rolleyes:

All in all, a perfectly pleasant, safe, and competent little cruiser for those not too concerned about speed. .
 
We sailed in company with one for a few years. Our friend bought one because he couldn't afford our HR34 at the time and it did much the same job. It was a perfectly good boat and went well downwind. He had the optional 27hp engine which I think was a good choice. There were a number of niggles with the fittings, which were not up to our's standard though were average for the time. He sold the boat after three years and we have kept ours for 20, which expresses something of the difference, but they are perfectly good boats and do what it says on the tin. Ideal for North Sea and that kind of sailing.
 
smeaks said:
I know the reputation of some of the Bavaria fleet... but i suspect some of the critism maybe un founded and mis percieved.
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I think it probably is but nevertheless they do have it.

I can’t recall reading a mag review saying any of them sail particularly well.

This does seem to affect their second hand prices but that may be a good or bad thing depending on where you are looking from.

We chartered a 46 once and it was a bit of a dog.

If you are as unsure as you seem from your OP then look at a few other brands.

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Just_sayin' said:
So not “reasonably quick” then?

https://www.yachtingmonthly.com/reviews/yacht-reviews/used-boat-bavaria-34?lazyload=0
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I think you’d need to ask the author what he meant by “reasonably”.

The full quote in context,

She is reasonably quick through the water, although her shallow forefoot can lead to her slamming a little in rough seas, which slows progress unless you bear off and sail her slightly free.
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Damned with faint praise...

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shaunksb said:
I think you’d need to ask the author what he meant by “reasonably”._
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I had a Westerly Tempest that used to slam itself to an absolute standstill under engine off Hill Head in the Solent.

Hardly one-marque-specific is it?
 
According to a broker I came across once, who was ex-Bav salesman (and wasn't trying to flog me a Bav at the time)...

Bav were ahead of Jeanneau and Beneteau in the 1990s in adopting effective low-end mass production techniques. That enabled them to build at decent quality and down to a price. They pitched squarely at the charter market and erred on the size of "a bit more house and a bit less sailing boat". Hence acquired a (somewhat justified, at the time) brand reputation that passionate sailors look down upon, along with an entirely unreasonable rap about build quality (because they were cheap).

Sounds reasonable to me and fits my experience of the marque of that era. Whether it stacks up against more recent models is a different question entirely.
 
RJJ said:
........................
Personally I like something with a bit more righting moment and a slightly sleeker hull for less drag and windage.. My belief is most of the Dufours/Beneteaus/Jeanneas have tended to be a bit quicker. That'll mean you do more sailing and less motoring in a force 3; also probably a bit better able to beat in a force 7 if you really want.

But I can't see a problem. As others have said, if it's well-kept, you start with a good survey, you haul-out regularly, and you are prudent after (ahem) incidents, I can't see why a Bavaria isn't a safe reliable boat in any conditions you are likely to face.
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I agree, with the caveat that recent Beneteau boats all seem to have very broad transoms and I suspect its easier to induce a broach than it is with the more traditionally hull shape found in Jeanneau and some but not all Bavaria models, assuming the OP wants a second hand boat as all volume makers now seem to carrying the full beam of the boat right aft in their most recent designs. I have sailed a Jeanneau 35 from about 2005, and it was a good performer unsder sail with a choice of hanked on headsails and a fully battened main. I think it would still be as good as any mass production boat of its size with a furling genoa. Although it carries its beam well aft the underwater shape is not too extreme.
 
johnalison said:
We sailed in company with one for a few years. Our friend bought one because he couldn't afford our HR34 at the time and it did much the same job. It was a perfectly good boat and went well downwind. He had the optional 27hp engine which I think was a good choice. There were a number of niggles with the fittings, which were not up to our's standard though were average for the time. He sold the boat after three years and we have kept ours for 20, which expresses something of the difference, but they are perfectly good boats and do what it says on the tin. Ideal for North Sea and that kind of sailing.
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As a former Bav 34 (2001version) owner for some 14 years we found ours excellent for what we used her for ie round south coast and cross channel

Points to watch /commnets
1) Look at rudders for osmosis -most 2000 boats have it though maybe/
2) Go for the 29hp if avialable but 19hp is more often found but if I was looking the larger engine would be a positive;
3) 3 cabin is preferred but makes access to bow cabin for some harder;
4) Make sure it has shower fitted in heads ;
5) The original sails were fairly rubbish Elvstroms - hopefully replaced by now by most
6) The original cut on headsail was to maximise volume -if sailing in Northern waters a slightly smaller recut version would safe furling etc .
7) Yes they do slam
8) Generally gear is god eg mast and winches etc with no issues;
9) Plumbing connections can be suspect ( might be down to cold winters freezing pipe connectors though)
10) Avoid charter versions as lower spec;
11) Look for upgraded plotter and AIS installed
12 Check heating exists and it works -usal Eber issues though which are not particular to Bav;
13) will out sail the HR etc unless it gets blowy;
14) Reef early and make sure the mainsheet track is easily realased- with cabin top mainsheet control is not ideal
15) Look for one with cockpit tent -massive improvement in volume but pricy to buy

Personally never regretted buying and was reasonably easy to on sell if realistic as to pricing and you follow brokers advice at time,
 
My 1999 Bav 36 broaches when it is over-canvassed for the conditions and heeling so far over that the rudder loses grip. I can feel it coming because the weather helm increases and increases until you're hard over and can't prevent the broach any more.

I am led to believe that twin rudders and more form stability (beam carried well aft and inclusion of chines) improves this situation considerably - the current Oceanis 38 is a typical example of this design and it has a cockpit like a football field but I've never sailed one.

My single rudder, more conservative AWB definately prefers to sail upright and I usually reef when I start doing 7-8 knots consistently although downwind is OK up to about 9 knots, highest I've recored is just over 10.

If the sails are reefed to maintain 6,5 knots then my Bav 36 is a pussycat and very easy to sail - although I've never sailed it in more than a F7.

Despite an overall length of 11,4m, my waterline length is only 9,4m which increases a bit when under way.

PS: Point 5 from Ashtead is very relevant, I downsized my Genoa on the advice of Crusader when I replaced the sails - it made a huge difference to the handling under sail. Most are probably specced with a large Genoa to avoid a seperate light-wind cruising chute or equivalent ... this makes it oversized when the wind gets up.
 
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ashtead said:
13) will out sail the HR etc unless it gets blowy;
14) Reef early and make sure the mainsheet track is easily realased- with cabin top mainsheet control is not ideal


Personally never regretted buying and was reasonably easy to on sell if realistic as to pricing and you follow brokers advice at time,
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My HR would outsail the Bav 34 to windward in all conditions, but the longer waterline of tha Bav told off the wind.

More significantly to me, the Bav would take in its first reef at 15 knots apparent wind, while mine was just getting going at 18 and reefed at 22-24, but this is about the same difference as for most AWBs.

I imagine that a Bav should sell easily enough, though my friend was unlucky in buying his in late 2002 and Bav dropped their prices shortly afterwards.
 
Baggywrinkle said:
My 1999 Bav 36 broaches when it is over-canvassed for the conditions and heeling so far over that the rudder loses grip. I can feel it coming because the weather helm increases and increases until you're hard over and can't prevent the broach any more.

y single rudder, more conservative AWB definately prefers to sail upright and I usually reef when I start doing 7-8 knots consistently although downwind is OK up to about 9 knots, highest I've recored is just over 10.

If the sails are reefed to maintain 6,5 knots then my Bav 36 is a pussycat and very easy to sail - although I've never sailed it in more than a F7.
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They do prefer being sailed fairly upright and will go just as fast with a reef in as hard-pressed without. Isn't that the trait of a good cruising boat though? Surely nobody wants to sail on their ear because they have to?
 
Bobc said:
They do prefer being sailed fairly upright and will go just as fast with a reef in as hard-pressed without. Isn't that the trait of a good cruising boat though? Surely nobody wants to sail on their ear because they have to?
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There's an old saying that a boat won't sail to windward unless it heels easily. Some older boats, such as those with lots of tumble home, were designed to be sailed well-heeled, but others, such as my last boat -a Sadler29- sail better more upright. What you regard as a good cruising boat is a matter of choice and ultimately a good design will be a compromise. Personally, I prefer a boat that doesn't need to be reefed early, even if the price is sailing at more heel, but good windward sailing and large cabin volumes are not easily combined.
 
johnalison said:
There's an old saying that a boat won't sail to windward unless it heels easily. Some older boats, such as those with lots of tumble home, were designed to be sailed well-heeled, but others, such as my last boat -a Sadler29- sail better more upright. What you regard as a good cruising boat is a matter of choice and ultimately a good design will be a compromise. Personally, I prefer a boat that doesn't need to be reefed early, even if the price is sailing at more heel, but good windward sailing and large cabin volumes are not easily combined.
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When reefing involved hanking on a different headsail and spending 10 minutes at the mast mucking around with halyards and topping lift, then a walk along the boom to tie off the buntlines then I would agree, a boat that heeled instead of requiring a reef would be a godsend. Now reefing is just pulling a few ropes from the cockpit and with a roller reefing main there is absolutely no need to even change course, personally I prefer the comfort of upright with no spilled drinks and a saloon floor that isn't at 45° requiring a "superb selection of hand-holds". ;) .... but each to his own.
 
Baggywrinkle said:
When reefing involved hanking on a different headsail and spending 10 minutes at the mast mucking around with halyards and topping lift, then a walk along the boom to tie off the buntlines then I would agree, a boat that heeled instead of requiring a reef would be a godsend. Now reefing is just pulling a few ropes from the cockpit and with a roller reefing main there is absolutely no need to even change course, personally I prefer the comfort of upright with no spilled drinks and a saloon floor that isn't at 45° requiring a "superb selection of hand-holds". ;) .... but each to his own.
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The trouble with a boat that doesn't heel much is that in order to achieve this you have to increase the wetted surface area, which slows the boat in light airs, so you then have to increase the sail area, which then means .....
 
johnalison said:
The trouble with a boat that doesn't heel much is that in order to achieve this you have to increase the wetted surface area, which slows the boat in light airs, so you then have to increase the sail area, which then means .....
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.. the asymetric ... I love flying mine because in light airs it's easy to handle :encouragement: ... and headroom is always measured from the cabin floor to the coachroof - so for example, on a starboard tack you don't have to open the starboard portholes to get standing headroom .... ;)
 
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