Bali 4.6 blue water or not?

[EugeneR]

Looking for our round the world boat and saw the Bali 4.6 catamaran at the Southampton show. Quite a lot of innovations including no trampoline - but the forward deck extends to the front end of both hulls.

Will this flood or slam in big seas? Is it good for offshore, or mostly coastal / charter only?

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Nothing wrong with a solid foredeck. They may ship some more water, and knock some more, but on the plus side it's structurally stronger. Prouts have been built like this for decades, Broadblue continue with some of their models, and they are both blue water capable designs. What I don't like is the amount of recesses in the foredeck of the Bali 4.6. If a green one comes over the bow that deck with its walkway to the cabin is going to fill up and hold tons of water. However, it's RCD cat A, and a biggish boat at 14.3m, so I expect that's been considered, and it can go anywhere. Catana is a well known long established builder of cats.

 

[Canopy Locked]

Looking for our round the world boat and saw the Bali 4.6 catamaran at the Southampton show. Quite a lot of innovations including no trampoline - but the forward deck extends to the front end of both hulls.

Will this flood or slam in big seas? Is it good for offshore, or mostly coastal / charter only?

There's a very interesting 2 part video interview with a guy who has sailed globally, about what makes a good blue water yacht. It's worth a listen to ! The link is here

 

[E39mad]

Bali are the "charter" versions in the Catana range.

The std Catana's are more expensive but well known for their blue water capability. That's not to say the Bali can't do it but there is a better in house option.

 

[Frogmogman]

There's a very interesting 2 part video interview with a guy who has sailed globally, about what makes a good blue water yacht. It's worth a listen to ! The link is here

Not quite sure what relevance Dick Beaumont’s views on bolt on keels have as regards multihulls.

TBH I didn’t watch the video as I’ve already heard his evangelical views about the only kind of boat he considers suitable for serious cruising, and I find his insistence that any other type of boat is not up to sniff rather tiresome.

There are plenty of boats without encapsulated keels or skeg hung rudders that successfully cross oceans without mishap, including multihulls (of course).

 

[geem]

Not quite sure what relevance Dick Beaumont’s views on bolt on keels have as regards multihulls.

TBH I didn’t watch the video as I’ve already heard his evangelical views about the only kind of boat he considers suitable for serious cruising, and I find his insistence that any other type of boat is not up to sniff rather tiresome.

There are plenty of boats without encapsulated keels or skeg hung rudders that successfully cross oceans without mishap, including multihulls (of course).

He has sailed hundreds of thousands of miles as a delivery skipper. He has some credibility. Who else do you know with similar experience that suggests he has got it wrong?

 

[Frogmogman]

He has sailed hundreds of thousands of miles as a delivery skipper. He has some credibility. Who else do you know with similar experience that suggests he has got it wrong?

He’s entitled to his view. I just don’t happen to believe it is the only valid one.

 

[geem]

He’s entitled to his view. I just don’t happen to believe it is the only valid one.

Then find somebody with similar level of experience that suggests he is wrong.

 

[EugeneR]

As OP, I have listened to his comments - thanks for the link - and take them onboard. That said, it does not mean the 100's of AWB's crossing oceans don't make it safely. It's a matter of weighing each factor according to preference, risk appetite and budget. We do value peace of mind, a lot, but it is weighed against cost.

Our choices appear to be an "older" tank, perhaps 10-15yo Amel 54 or similar sized Oyster, or an almost new AWB where we rely on newness to ensure the keel, or front, won't come off.

Or, a medium to fast catamaran - perhaps 1-5yo - to avoid healing - but then risk of slamming. In that segment, the Bali looks practical - but perhaps more charter than offshore, hence asking. It's finding the right balance. (No pun intended).

FYI planned trip is 5+ years and no marinas.

 

[stephen_h]

I would do a bit more studying of suitable catamarans. A Bali is not what I would think of as a blue water boat.
Sure it would do it but there are much better alternatives out there. As mentioned it is a charter design from Catana and not what you would call medium to fast.
The Catanas would be a better choice

 

[geem]

I

As OP, I have listened to his comments - thanks for the link - and take them onboard. That said, it does not mean the 100's of AWB's crossing oceans don't make it safely. It's a matter of weighing each factor according to preference, risk appetite and budget. We do value peace of mind, a lot, but it is weighed against cost.

Our choices appear to be an "older" tank, perhaps 10-15yo Amel 54 or similar sized Oyster, or an almost new AWB where we rely on newness to ensure the keel, or front, won't come off.

Or, a medium to fast catamaran - perhaps 1-5yo - to avoid healing - but then risk of slamming. In that segment, the Bali looks practical - but perhaps more charter than offshore, hence asking. It's finding the right balance. (No pun intended).

FYI planned trip is 5+ years and no marinas.

The Amel or Oyster would make a great choice of boat. When the weather goes bad you won't be wishing you were on a Bali or any light displacement monohull

 

[dunedin]

There's a very interesting 2 part video interview with a guy who has sailed globally, about what makes a good blue water yacht. It's worth a listen to ! The link is here

WARNING - He has a particular commercial interest and bias as seller of Kraken Yachts - clearly in his view Kraken yachts are the only yachts capable of going blue water, which is not supported by others sailing the world

 

[Martin_J]

I only just checked out this thread to find out what a Bali 4.6 was...

First video on YouTube does however show what looks to be a large drain hole in that foredeck well..



Strangely, it's also one of the first statements made in the video!

 

[RupertW]

We are looking for a blue water cat for our retirement boat - not looking forward to the rolling on our cross-Atlantic in a mono this Winter, but doing that just once is not too big a deal.

I was looking at performance cruisers (very secondhand) like Catana and Outremer and dreamt about a Gunboat, compared to fastish early Lagoons and slow tubs like Prouts, or badly built Leopards. But I do need a cruising catamaran to cope with sails set for 15-20knots being hit by a 45 knot short gust - fine if there is a lot of fuss but not fine if it simply capsizes. In the Med or short handed at night there can be little warning and you can’t set the sails perpetually for a wind force more than twice the current gusts.

So the Outremer flipping over recently in Croatia has got me thinking back to a more solid tub.

 

[Canopy Locked]

WARNING - He has a particular commercial interest and bias as seller of Kraken Yachts - clearly in his view Kraken yachts are the only yachts capable of going blue water, which is not supported by others sailing the world

Jezz.... no need to get too upset.
Yes we can see that he has a commercial interest but he has some experience which I (and quite possible the OP) doesn't and that makes it interesting to listen to. It also make me think harder about what a boat is going to be used for - It's a fact that ALL boats are compromises to some degree or other. If I was doing an Atlantic crossing followed by a few years bimbling around the Caribbean, then it would be a cat for me - no question. In my case it would be more about the destination than the journey. If I was going to be circumnavigating and well off grid, then alot of the points he raises regards damaging keels through grounding and hitting submerged objects / loosing rudders, not being able to get to "facilities" we take for granted, would have a great deal more importance for me.

As OP, I have listened to his comments - thanks for the link - and take them onboard. That said, it does not mean the 100's of AWB's crossing oceans don't make it safely. It's a matter of weighing each factor according to preference, risk appetite and budget. We do value peace of mind, a lot, but it is weighed against cost.

Our choices appear to be an "older" tank, perhaps 10-15yo Amel 54 or similar sized Oyster, or an almost new AWB where we rely on newness to ensure the keel, or front, won't come off.

Or, a medium to fast catamaran - perhaps 1-5yo - to avoid healing - but then risk of slamming. In that segment, the Bali looks practical - but perhaps more charter than offshore, hence asking. It's finding the right balance. (No pun intended).

FYI planned trip is 5+ years and no marinas.

Happy to share the link - more knowledge helps make a more informed decision. Personally I'm with you on the Cat mainly because there's more living space. But there's one thing about the Bali that makes me pause for ocean sailing and that's the solid foredeck - sure I have read or listened to comments about this - if I can find a link I'll post.

There's lots and lots of info out there about sailing cats - enjoy the discovery ... I envy you!

 

[Chiara’s slave]

With no commercial interest, but great admiration…. And British,

Dazcat Catamaran Range - The Multihull Centre The Multihull Centre

Fast, tough, attractive, theres one moored on our pontoon. The only boat I would trade the Dragonfly for.

 

[Manosk]

From people that are maintaining them it seems that the laminate is very thin ie having the seacocks replaced

 

[Frogmogman]

With no commercial interest, but great admiration…. And British,

Dazcat Catamaran Range - The Multihull Centre The Multihull Centre

Fast, tough, attractive, theres one moored on our pontoon. The only boat I would trade the Dragonfly for.

You wouldn’t be tempted by a cat from Marsaudon ?

 

[Neeves]

We have a 38' Lightwave, catamaran. Beam reaching in 55 knots we have had seas breaking over the cabin roof. Bridgedeck clearance is 1m we have slightly less than 2 m headroom in the saloon. Seas regularly wash through our cockpit,

I would never buy a catamaran with a 'cockpit' in the bridge deck - what exactly do you need one for - you can sit quite comfortably on the forward bridge deck of any 'normal' cat without the need for the room for a spa bath. Its a design feature in a similarly sized Leopard, or Sunsail, and might be advantageous for a charter yacht - but not at one focussed at crossing oceans.

So ask yourself, or people who have crossed oceans, - have they ever hankered after a recessed lounge area in the bow where they could relax with cocktails.

Yachts are a compromise - especially if you want to cross an ocean and then spend a year in the Caribbean. Where are you going to make the sacrifices.

Jonathan

 

[Chiara’s slave]

You wouldn’t be tempted by a cat from Marsaudon ?

They’re ok, but my money would definitely be heading to Cornwall. It would be a daggerboard boat, definitely no forward seating, as stripped back as possible. Likely to have a fair bit of exposed moulding in other words.