Bahamian moor in Caribbean

[eddystone]

This is not an anchor thread! The question is how best to rig with the standard kit on a charter yacht which I assume is a kedge anchor with a short bit of chain and the rest rope. If it’s octoplait then the end won’t pass through the link of a 5/16th chain.
I could take a shackle with me and attach it to the kedge rope with an anchor hitch but what is the largest shackle of which the pin will easily pass through 5/16th link?

 

[DJE]

Usually a shackle pin the same size as the chain size will pass through a link. Of course you could use this shackle to attach a bigger shackle or a ring.

 

[Stemar]

One of these any good?

 

[eddystone]

One of these any good?

That’s what I had in mind

 

[Neeves]

3/8th" bow or 'D' shackle.

5/16th" chain has a larger hole, or link size, than the 'equivalent' (8mm) metric chain. Crosby, Peerless and Campbell all make G80 x 3/8th" shackles (G209a for Crosby) (Orange pin' for Campbell) or (Blue pin for Peerless) and I think Crosby's are sometimes called Platinum Pin. The WLL of each of these will be 2t. Each company also make another less strong shackle with a WLL of 1t (similar to those available from any UK hardware store).

All 3/8th" shackles are made to the same approx dimensions, whether WLL of 1t or 2t

You can buy the Crosby shackles in the UK (I get mine from Tecni), Bristol?) but the Carib being a lake of the US and I guess an Imperial market - you should find Campbell or Peerless shackles. Yoke also manufacture and I think Columbus Mackinon - hopefully you are spoilt for choice. Given that these shackles are less easy to find in Europe, especially the UK. Why not buy a gross during your time there and sell them off slowly forum members as the threads asking 'what shackle' develop

Remember to take some mousing wire

Take care, stay safe

Jonathan

 

[capnsensible]

This is not an anchor thread! The question is how best to rig with the standard kit on a charter yacht which I assume is a kedge anchor with a short bit of chain and the rest rope. If it’s octoplait then the end won’t pass through the link of a 5/16th chain.
I could take a shackle with me and attach it to the kedge rope with an anchor hitch but what is the largest shackle of which the pin will easily pass through 5/16th link?

Hiya, I got a question. Where are you going? Big chance it's not rally necessary?

 

[oldbloke]

I don't understand your scenario. The kedgeree will be as you describe, apart from any financial aspects the thought of dragging 30m of chain suitable for a 45 footer out of a locker and then deploying it without the proper fittings and no winch .
However, the rope will already be attached to the chain as the charter company won't expect you to come fully equipped or expect you to be able to make a good job of it if you did assemble it yourself

 

[Neeves]

To illustrate the difference between 8mm and 5/16th chain




Jonathan

You seem to think the yacht will be equipped with 5/16th" chain and thus the shackles to attach chain to anchor will be, should be, 3/8th". Whether they are 'good' shackles (G80) or less good - does not matter in terms of size as all 3/8th" shackles are the same size (and neatly fit 5/16th" chain). I'd expect, possibly naively, that there will be a spare shackle(s) on the yacht. 3/8th" shackles sometimes don't fit 8mm chain (as though they might fit (they might not) as the shackles sizes are nominal. When the clevis pin does not quite fit then you can try a drift or compress the link (to widen the hole) with use of a decent engineers vice (and a bit of grunt).

And you said this was not an anchor thread

If you want to practice a Bahamian moor then you really need to have a decent swivel as well as, or instead of, a shackle. An imperial 3/8th" swivel will have the same sized clevis pin as a 3/8th" shackle.

If you send NormanS a PM he is the only person I can think of who regularly uses a Bahamian moor - and I think he knows what he is doing.

J

 

[eddystone]

Antigua in May. The notes on the Imray chart refer to ground swells and advise measures to reduce swinging circle. The likelihood is that this won’t be the case in May. I’m assuming as it’s English speaking Caribbean will be non metric hence thinking 5/16th chain. The slightly smaller yacht we had in BVIs only had 100ft chain so not possible to fall back far enough to drop kedge - therefore proposed to a) lay out main anchor as normal b) drop kedge from dinghy in estimated correct position c) bring back to yacht and attach to main anchor chain so that the join is clear of keel/rudders/sail drive.
Need for swivel - noted
Do you think they should have equal scope given one is chain and one is rope?
When I’ve got me a swivel I aim to go out and practice in Cawsand Bay so maybe QHMP should put out an NTM - “caution idiots spotted in Cawsand area”

 

[eddystone]

3/8th" bow or 'D' shackle.

5/16th" chain has a larger hole, or link size, than the 'equivalent' (8mm) metric chain. Crosby, Peerless and Campbell all make G80 x 3/8th" shackles (G209a for Crosby) (Orange pin' for Campbell) or (Blue pin for Peerless) and I think Crosby's are sometimes called Platinum Pin. The WLL of each of these will be 2t. Each company also make another less strong shackle with a WLL of 1t (similar to those available from any UK hardware store).

All 3/8th" shackles are made to the same approx dimensions, whether WLL of 1t or 2t

You can buy the Crosby shackles in the UK (I get mine from Tecni), Bristol?) but the Carib being a lake of the US and I guess an Imperial market - you should find Campbell or Peerless shackles. Yoke also manufacture and I think Columbus Mackinon - hopefully you are spoilt for choice. Given that these shackles are less easy to find in Europe, especially the UK. Why not buy a gross during your time there and sell them off slowly forum members as the threads asking 'what shackle' develop

Remember to take some mousing wire

Take care, stay safe

Jonathan

Sourcing a certified shackle seems straightforward and is not going to break the bank. I’m not sure about swivels though - as they’re more expensive like to get something I can continue to use at home. Assuming I’m attaching to the anchor chain with a bow shackle what type of swivel do I need to sit between the main anchor chain and the kedge rope? Or attach swivel directly to chain?

 

[capnsensible]

Antigua in May. The notes on the Imray chart refer to ground swells and advise measures to reduce swinging circle. The likelihood is that this won’t be the case in May. I’m assuming as it’s English speaking Caribbean will be non metric hence thinking 5/16th chain. The slightly smaller yacht we had in BVIs only had 100ft chain so not possible to fall back far enough to drop kedge - therefore proposed to a) lay out main anchor as normal b) drop kedge from dinghy in estimated correct position c) bring back to yacht and attach to main anchor chain so that the join is clear of keel/rudders/sail drive.
Need for swivel - noted
Do you think they should have equal scope given one is chain and one is rope?
When I’ve got me a swivel I aim to go out and practice in Cawsand Bay so maybe QHMP should put out an NTM - “caution idiots spotted in Cawsand area”

You might get a few people watching you do that in Antigua too!

Really, like others on here I've anchored all around Antigua no problem. If you are concerned about swell, just go into English Harbour or Jolly Harbour......where you will find well stocked chandlers with kit you will find familiar.
Enjoy your holiday, it's one of my favourite places to sail.

 

[Zing]

Antigua in May. The notes on the Imray chart refer to ground swells and advise measures to reduce swinging circle. The likelihood is that this won’t be the case in May. I’m assuming as it’s English speaking Caribbean will be non metric hence thinking 5/16th chain. The slightly smaller yacht we had in BVIs only had 100ft chain so not possible to fall back far enough to drop kedge - therefore proposed to a) lay out main anchor as normal b) drop kedge from dinghy in estimated correct position c) bring back to yacht and attach to main anchor chain so that the join is clear of keel/rudders/sail drive.
Need for swivel - noted
Do you think they should have equal scope given one is chain and one is rope?
When I’ve got me a swivel I aim to go out and practice in Cawsand Bay so maybe QHMP should put out an NTM - “caution idiots spotted in Cawsand area”

Which anchorage are you concerned about?

Why do you want to Bahamian moor? Is it to reduce swing because your desired anchorage is off a reef and you might swing into rocks, or is it because you anticipate a crowded anchorage?

In general ground swells are easy to avoid by moving, but I am confused as to why you mention them in the context of reducing swing, or are they two unconnected issues?

 

[Frogmogman]

I’m assuming as it’s English speaking Caribbean will be non metric hence thinking 5/16th chain.

Except the charter yacht will most probably have been produced in France or Germany.

Dare I suggest you may be over-thinking this ?

 

[eddystone]

Except the charter yacht will most probably have been produced in France or Germany.

Dare I suggest you may be over-thinking this ?

Without a doubt ? but then SWMBO says I’m like that, or as she puts it just very annoying.
However I won’t try it in the Caribbean if I can’t make it work here.

 

[Bajansailor]

I would politely agree that you are over thinking this - I dont think I have ever seen anybody in the islands (and especially not in the anchorages around Antigua) use a Bahamian moor.
Your yacht will have a nice electric windlass, along with suitable chain and anchor, and that should be sufficient for most conditions that you will experience.
It is all very different now to the 'bareboats' in the 70's and 80's which invariably just had (for example) a 35 lb CQR with perhaps 15' of 3/8" chain and 100' + of rope, and a smaller Danforth as a kedge - and no windlass, so you had to hoik it all up by hand.

 

[NormanS]

You're making a Bahamian Moor sound very complicated, which it doesn't need to be. Unless it's for a very long term mooring, all you need to do is, having dropped your bower and set it with the amount of chain that you want, lay out your second anchor with the dinghy, and make its line fast to your main anchor chain. Then lower enough chain so that the join is well beneath the level of your keel. No swivel needed unless you're going to be there for months.
But, do you really need all that? Remember that if your boat is on a Bahamian Moor, and everyone else nearby is anchored conventionally, you will cause chaos.

 

[eddystone]

You're making a Bahamian Moor sound very complicated, which it doesn't need to be. Unless it's for a very long term mooring, all you need to do is, having dropped your bower and set it with the amount of chain that you want, lay out your second anchor with the dinghy, and make its line fast to your main anchor chain. Then lower enough chain so that the join is well beneath the level of your keel. No swivel needed unless you're going to be there for months.
But, do you really need all that? Remember that if your boat is on a Bahamian Moor, and everyone else nearby is anchored conventionally, you will cause chaos.

Take all that on board but I am intrigued to find out how well it works - perhaps Studland Bay in August would be suitable.................

 

[Neeves]

Setting up a Bahamian moor is a bit of a faff - and you will only do it if you are going to sit at anchor for more than a day or so. If you do set up for more than a day or so then you might need a swivel, depends on the wind and tide (which you will judge at the time).

You can buy galvanised swivels, like this stainless one, as made by suppliers to the lifting industry, Campbell, Peerless, Crosby to a G30 specification (I don't know but possibly also to a G40/G43 specification). Most anchor chain today is to a G30 specification. Chain failure is not reported, or has not been for years, and this implies the chain/yacht spread sheets and G30 specification are adequate. Consequently you can buy a swivel cheaply and it will be to the same spec as your chain. Having a double clevis pin you would not need to source a shackle as well. I'd not recommend tham for long terms use (months) but you are not going to use one for months (or that is my understanding). These swivels are made the same way as many swivels in chandlers - a nut is welded to a bolt and the 'arrangement' is the bearing that swivels. This type of swivel allows you to see the joint whereas the sort you find in our chandlers the joint is 'hidden' inside the barrel.


I would not use a swivel, at all, but if someone were to insist I would certainly not instal it as shown - I'd have Vyv's 3 links between anchor and swivel.

Jonathan

This is but one problem of many swivels in chandlers. The bearing surface can be a bolt with a nut attached and then spot welded. I this case it appears to be a bolt with a little cap attached and then spot welded. The cap (or nut) is hidden within the barrel, that part to the right, but you simply cannot see the quality of however it is secured - and in this case the cap came off, the weld corroded. Fortuitously all the pieces were retrieved - so we know what the issues are. The earlier picture the first in this post - you can see the joint - the swivel might be crude but nothing is hidden.



J

 

[Bajansailor]

If there is a swell that you are worried about (perhaps because it is broadside on, causing you to roll noticeably if you are a monohull) then it would be easier to just put out a stern anchor such that the boat is facing either bow or stern into the swell.

Or move to a different bay - there are so many different anchorages in Antigua, and you will not have to sail or motor too far to find one that is more protected.

 

[NormanS]

Talk of the need for a swivel for a Bahamian Moor (BM) is an absolute red herring. Obviously they are not needed at the anchors, as with a BM there will be no twisting at the anchor. The only place where there could possibly be an argument for a swivel would be at the bow roller, if it was felt that the boat would be rotating regularly in the one direction around the mooring. That would involve disconnecting the bitter end, and fitting the swivel to the end of the chain, and then extending it out over the bow roller.
I have some experience with using a BM, having been in the habit of leaving my boat unattended in various places around Shetland and the Western Isles, for periods of four weeks or so. I never used, and never have seen any evidence for the need for a swivel.
For a short term BM, all that is needed is to make the second anchor rode fast to the main rode, then lower the join to below keel level. As I was rigging my BMs for longer term use, I made up a more permanent solution which involved fitting an inverted galvanized "saucer" to the main rode, which located a large bow shackle, fitted around the main rode, with the second rode attached to this shackle.
The places where I was leaving my boat were unfrequented by others, but if considering mooring your boat in this way, be very aware that your boat will behave very differently from others anchored nearby in a conventional manner.