Back to Jets at Southampton - Cara Marine

[Gludy]

Was on the Cara Marine jet boat yesterday and did the rounds of the competition at the show.

The build quality of the Cara Boat is very high both inside an out.

The bathing platform is wonderful - you can walk around a rib laid horizintally on it!

The cockpit area is huge, no problem having a few dozen folks around for a drink.

The engine room is spacious - in fact when I went down to take my first look thre were already 3 or 4 chaps down there and we did not get in each others way!

I met the owner as well as the Hamilton jet chap down there. The owner is taking the boat after the show.

Given:-
The economy of running this boat with both fule and maintainance
The fantastic sea keeping properties
The fact it can dry out.
Plus dozens of other features, it is hard to find any competition at any price.

This is probably the way I will be going with my new boat. The boat is designed around the jets and offers many advantages over props without any of the disadvantages.

There is a risk in buying a boat from a small manufacturer - the boat is not a commodity like the production boats, but it is a very good boat and in the end I have to evaluate the risk of possible depreciation.

Having now seen the baot and studied the subject a lot more, I would like to know of any impediment that anyone has to raise as to why and it and I should not be joined together and live happily ever after?

Paul
PS
I spent time with both Fairline and Princess. Surpised to find so little engine access on the new Princess 61. The fairline chap (offshore Marine) was a very good chap and certainly left us with the right impression about his company.

Amazed to see a chart plotter positioned, at hip level, alongside the only helm seat in the Azimut 68 - it seemed the only was to read part of the screen was to lie under the seat and look at the lower half of the screen!





Paul

 

[mustard]

I thought the Cara big, but looked a little cumbersome. A Broom with a purpose. Certainly good use of space, and the economy/range/performance would be a major plus factor. Engine room apart, which IMHO was big enough, the Princess 61 was an absolute hands-down winner. The craftmanship in these bigger Princesses are top drawer, nothing I saw to match them, plus huge aft deck, cockpit, lazarette space and good sized bathrooms I thought made for a practical and efficient boat allround. Helm position and environs top & bottom faultless. Bet the depreciation on this boat will be better than the Cara, clever & large as it is. Thought this would be the best buy, if not the best value in the whole 55-65' range. I'd be happy with one to see out the twilight years. Interested in sea trialing them side by side with a Fairline 55, which I could not get so excited about. Perhaps a three-way MBY test would throw-up some talking points.

Must say I was disappointed with the Traders, especially the 44 on the Try-a-boat scheme. The should have perhaps had a new one running. I dunno,now get feeling they are a bit over-rated - a real affeciendo's boat. Probably sturdy & Hardy.

I too had a friendly and helpful Fairline reception, treated seriously (unlike Sealine) and left with a good impression, so much so I'm buying one of their boats.

All subjective and personal, I know, and your needs will be different - I guess it might take Cara a while to get the confidence of us all.

Did you look over the Fleming 55 next too it?

 

[Gludy]

I looked at the Princess 61 and the Fairline 55.
I liked the 61 more than the 55.

So I compared the 61 to the Cara.

The Princess is, even though a new model, a fairly good bet on depreciation. I agree. The Cara has an unknown depreciation but being very easy and inexpensive to maintain, may - and I say may - hold its price OK, Nver the less the Princess would have to win on this point.

On every other significant point about the boat itself, however the Cara wins hands down.

It has CAT engines (twin 700ho and that gets me the make of engines I want offering a better engine the the 700ho Volvo.

It knocks every other boat out of the water for sea keeping. This is very important to me and.

It can dry out - again, important to me - O know of no other 60 footer that can do this.

It offers very easy engine accessability that beats the 61 by a mile - easy accesability means bettter maintainance.

It beats the 61 on performance and fule consumption. In fact, whilst the Cara is a boat that competes in the Nelson type market, it offers better perforamce than the Princess/Fairline type market. Better sea keeping than the Nelson with better performance than the Princess/Fairlines.

It skims over nets and lobster pots and has no props to damage.

The internal design, within limitations is very much up to thge buyer and I certainly would want a design with some 'Wow' factor.

It can easily be crewed by just myself and wife, offering fantastic agility in locks and marinas and enabling me to take a 60 footer where others cannot go.

The lower helm position is so good that it would be a joy to helm from down there, whilst the upper position means that you are still part of the social scene.

The list goes on , I cannot find anyting elsewhere that beats the Cara.

I ran out of time and so did not see the Fleming, which I would have liked to see but I beleive that boat cannot cruise at 27 konts and offer top speeds of well over 30 knots, it is a different animal.

I am almost tempted to go back for Sunday the last day as I have had time to reflect and need to do more looking!





Paul

 

[chippie]

It sounds like you have found your boat Gludy. Is there a waiting list?
If there is , it would perhaps indicate that a second hand one could be sold fairly readily. If not , the gamble re depreciation just got bigger.

Cheers

 

[Guest]

Having been in possession of the spec (and sending it around the forum members) for some time, I too am
impressed for the same reasons as yourself. Sadly I did not have time to see it at the Show.

Don't suppose one can arrange a sea trial on one as they don't build any demo models.

When you've got yours can I come and try it ? Meanwhile I'll start saving

"The Med has got me" (no not the Medway the other Med)

 

[wakeup]

"The Princess is, even though a new model, a fairly good bet on depreciation. I agree. The Cara has an unknown depreciation but being very easy and inexpensive to maintain, may - and I say may - hold its price OK, Nver the less the Princess would have to win on this point."

Depreciation is really influenced by supply and demand not efficient running costs. You will no doubt find more demand for a second hand 61 than you would a Cara and therefore invitably the Cara would depreciate more rapidly than a known brand even if it has all the advantages of the jet propulsion etc etc. So don't kid yourself the Cara will 'hold its price' It won't , but don't let that stop you buying it if you think the deprecaition is worth all the extra benefits of this hull and propulsion combination.



yada yada..

 

[Gludy]

Being a new boat with a new leisure builder, I guess there is currentrly no waiting list but one may or may not develop over the coming year. I cannot order one until next year anyway. I agree that supply and demand is what governs price. I hope that the Cara boat does develop a healthy demand because of it unique and very practical features.

This mall Irish boat company developed a pilot boat that really won out over the competition, so much so that the competition had to buy it out., leaving Cara with the leisure sude to develop based on the same hull.

My boating will be with myself and wife and maybe some guests. So I need a boat that is capable of long cruising holidays that can be crewed by just the two of us.

On long cruises I do not wish to ruin them by hitting fishing nets, lobster pots and floating fridges. When something does go wrong, I need ease of maintainance - with the Cara you can remove an engine in one day - they lift straight out through the hatch above them. The same goes for the rest of the equipment.

Its a 60 foot boat with 70cms draft and just over 12ft air draft, so the canal routs are also an option with it.

It will run one one engine without any problem or tendency to swerve one way or the other.Ideal for some European canal routes.

I can dry out in small harbours and yet have a large boat with probably the best sea keeping hull in the world.

I talked the the owner of it on the boat. He used to sail but then went over to power and went into Sunseekers.

With the Cara you can choose to go any direction at any angle and cope with a lot of tight situations with minimal crew.

Since studying the subject of jets etc, it is clear that almost all the stories and experiences are based on old technology. The Cara with its Hamilton jets have been designed together. The engine is at the back - the engine room could have 8 people down there without too much of a problem! It has 6ft6inch head room and enough space for tools, oil drums etc. Its the best engine room I have ever seen on anything like this size of boat.

Having looked around the competition and given that we can specify a great deal of the interiior, it offers me a boat that can be tailored to what I want and incorporate some wow factor inside.

The lower helm is exceptional - it offers an indoors postion that tempts you to use it (95% of my helming is currently domne on the flybridge).

The Hamilton jet guy was on the boat - they have a UK base and he knew his stuff. I am sure they are very hopeful about the effect of the first real jet boat into this market.

So I suppose, this will be my boat with a fair wind but I have to wait for an event that will provide the resources next year. I intend for this to be the boat for me very long term.




Paul<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by kimhollamby on 22/09/2002 14:06 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[tcm]

Re: Go on, buy it then, but

The depreciation will be higher than more popular boats. Although, you only realise this when you sell it.

It looks a bit trudgy. Whereas the Azimuts look the the biz, imho. For several hundred grand, i'd want something that looked better than a flashed-up fishing or pilot boat. See wakeup to erstablish the OB rating of this boat.

Don't dismiss other options just cos they have "only one helm seat" - you can gettem to change/add many things on many boats at this size. Note also that the full-width owner is supposed to downstairs in the full-width owners suite attending the needs of the hundreds of wimmin on the Azimut, whereas the cara has storage for a lot of books and charts.

You are very keen on the jets. However, last season I only had one problem with drives being fouled....and that was with the jet-drive dinghy, not the props on the main boat. Any thing floting on the surface is sucked in at high speed, in this case some rope, straight round the impellor shaft, lift out required.

I am a teensy bit wurried that that the man from Hamilaton is there on the jet-drive boat. Why? Imean, I've never seen men from MAN and the propellor people might be deadfor all I care.

Nonetheless, buy the thing anyway.

 

[wakeup]

OB Rating

Normally you'd expect an OB rating in the 10s to teens for a boat of this size, but since its built on a Pilot boat it really is in the low single numbers.

But then again I am sure Gludy woulldn't be buying this boat for it's OB appeal!

yada yada..

 

[mustard]

I imagine one big plus is that both the Cara company and the Hamilton Jet people will be glad to give you all the help and support you need in the early years - you'd probably be owner number 2 or 3. But still reckon the depreciation risk would make you really think before you ordered. Its a lot of risk for a lot of money. Appreciate the options available to you, like air draft, handling etc but c/f the small boat market, where outboards for all their faults still outnumber jets 20-1, despite the spectacular promo from the jet boats on the Shotover in NZ and the Orinoco in Brazil. Its probably about perception, not performance, like rotary engines v turbo-diesels.

Why do you need ease of maintenance when things go wrong. You are not going to deal with it ,are you? And Princess/Fairline will have it down to an art by now. And at 60' there aren't many seas that you will want to be in where the Cara hull will be that much more capable than a Princess. That engine room is roomy, but unless you are down there just for the pleasure of the sound/room/access, why do you consider it so important? Filters, impellers, etc all totally accessible in the others. I also thought the helms on the Princess nigh on perfect. I happen to know, like TCM, of other stories of problems with suck-ins on jets in NZ. Perhaps it might the major weak point that stops this project in its track.

I haven't got the money to take such a risk - if you have I'd still councel care. You might be just the guinea-pig Cara needs, despite their total enthusiasm and confidence.

 

[mustard]

Re: Go on, buy it then, but

..Can't be be alone in thinking the bigger Azimuts ugly. Those windows are really c**p....

 

[richson]

I looked over the Cara at SBS too. I thought it was the most impressive boat at the show and I would have it in a heartbeat if I could afford it, but then I like Nelsons too. They have sold 3 so far (before show). I think that it's a boat whose appearance will not age as fast as some of the other more swish looking designer creations, and that might help its resale value in the longer term. It's not a med boat, and it's not supposed to be. I think comparisons with P61 etc are pointless - different customers with different requirements will buy these boats. You could take this boat almost anywhere, see out of it from everywhere, in almost any conditions, and get there faster and more economically than anything else I can think of.
Everything about it looked top class. I think I would fit a few seats in the engine room so occasionally I could sit there and say " thats how it ought to be done". Oh, and maybe put some goals up in the cockpit - it's big enough for 5-a side.

 

[Gludy]

Glad you liked it.

I like the thought of a long trip without pranging the props, I like the economy of it, I like the fact that just two of us can crew it, cruise all day at 28 knots. .... the list goes on.

Whilst I do not do any serious work on engines, I like to maintain them very well and that is so easy with the Cara - mind you, the same easy to maintain philosphy extends to all equipment on the boat.

The wife likes the idea of the drying out locker - pop your wet clothes in and it sucks out the moisture.

The huge cockpit area, seems to make it good for the Med - or am I missing something having never been there in a boat?

It really deserves a mag review because it challanges so much. An in depth review of the only jet cruiser on the market designed around jets is very much needed.

Paul



Paul

 

[EME]

Following your guys ravings had to go and review the website. I confess it does look impressive and svelte. Given its pedigree it must also be stunningly weel built and with a superb specification.

What is a MED BOAT...I always think of Open cockpit cruisers , yet I would guess that over 1/2 the boats are flybridge or cockpit >40ft.

Given that company , then then yes just as good in the MED as anywhere and there are lots of driftwood in there!

Couple of real qualifcations. Is there an external fridge/icemaker? Is there a loungerhigh enough to see but more importantly also to be seen. If not SORRY, not a Med boat !!!

...I wanna boat please..

 

[mustard]

Mmm. Well Gludy, there you go, another fan, and yuno, I agree with the comments. Jets might be the way to go, but in the end I'll bet a stocked cockpit fridge you decide against it simply because its a risk one step too far.

I don't know what you mean by maintaining the engines very well - we do the basics, others do the rest. You can keep any engine room spotless, that's easy if thats your bag, but its no reason to buy. Drying out lockers need a humidifier at £59.99 from Argos. Bent props are a lot cheaper than sucking in logs. She does all look a lttle over-blown, but I do, however, very much respect the reasoning.

The best bet might be for Cara to sell the design/engineering to Marine Projects and see what they come up with.

 

[tcm]

Med Boat requirements

1. as learner says, must look the absolute part from the stern, no dangling davits or that sort of rubbish cluttering the looks.

2. Must exceed 21.5 metres otherwise can't stay in st tropez in the old port in season.

3. Must be able to see and be seen from the stern, forward seating useless.

4. Hydraulic passarelle with remote control. Manual planky passerelle permissible only on classic saily boats, and must have 20+ coats of varnish.

5. Large stern area to print boat name (so princess 65 is useless cos stern doors are in two bits)

6. Deck fridge and icemaker on all levels , again as stipulated by learner.

7. Visible rear sunpads, as large as possible, for suggestive outdoor frolicing overtones. Having these in leopard print with live-looking leopards was last season's look, now passé, and having them in beige is at least two years out of date - stick to stripy blue/white or blue.

8. B*llocks to the engines: on the front sunpad more than 17 knots gets a bit too windy and the towels with fly away at 20, it's under 30 miles by sea from antibes/golfe juan to st tropez, and only 5 miles from st tropez to club 55. Cruising "all day" at 28 knots will accidentally put you somewhere horrible, like Italy or Spain.

9. Crew quarters for girlies who get drinks as required to stay in.

10. Massive aircon, preferably two units, and spare generator, to make it nice and cool on deck as well as below.

11. Bimini cover, cos it gets hot.

12. Target OB rating of 10 plus (see wakeup)

13. Doorbell rigged to passarelle if possible, with rude sign telling visitors to get lost, it's private.

 

[Gludy]

Yes there is an external icemaker/fridge and the view from the lounge is outstanding.
Paul

Paul

 

[Gludy]

An easy access engine room is cheaper and easier to maintain, keep spotless and see any problems develop. It is much easier for real work, not by me, to be done on it ancd check it is done.

The sucking in logs is a bit over the top, the velocity of water into the intake is always lower than the speed of the boat and without repeating old threads - it does not happen.

I think Marine Projects would spoil the functionality of everything on the boat - design tends to come before building a real boat. The Cara is not only a real boat but is also at the leading edge.

Having said, all that, we will have to wait to see what I purchase next year

Paul

Paul

 

[Gludy]

Re: Med Boat requirements

1. as learner says, must look the absolute part from the stern, no dangling davits or that sort of rubbish cluttering the looks.
Yes, no davits, just a bathing platform that is the biggest I have seen on a 60 footer.

2. Must exceed 21.5 metres otherwise can't stay in st tropez in the old port in season.
Damn - I will have to find three metres from somewhere!

3. Must be able to see and be seen from the stern, forward seating useless.
Yes, its OK on this.

4. Hydraulic passarelle with remote control. Manual planky passerelle permissible only on classic saily boats, and must have 20+ coats of varnish.

5. Large stern area to print boat name (so princess 65 is useless cos stern doors are in two bits)
Yes - Massive area.

6. Deck fridge and icemaker on all levels , again as stipulated by learner.
Yes , it has.

7. Visible rear sunpads, as large as possible, for suggestive outdoor frolicing overtones. Having these in leopard print with live-looking leopards was last season's look, now passé, and having them in beige is at least two years out of date - stick to stripy blue/white or blue.
Nope - it fails, but the cockpit is so large I am sure we can fir a few hammocks on it - will they do?

8. B*llocks to the engines: on the front sunpad more than 17 knots gets a bit too windy and the towels with fly away at 20, it's under 30 miles by sea from antibes/golfe juan to st tropez, and only 5 miles from st tropez to club 55. Cruising "all day" at 28 knots will accidentally put you somewhere horrible, like Italy or Spain.
In that cae just use one engine without any tendency to steer anything but straight.

9. Crew quarters for girlies who get drinks as required to stay in.
The interior layout is flexible but the plan is for a spare cabin anyway.

10. Massive aircon, preferably two units, and spare generator, to make it nice and cool on deck as well as below.
Yes - it has a number of units, more than three and has built in redundancy plus total boat dehumidification.

11. Bimini cover, cos it gets hot.
Yes.

So are you going to swop the Leopard for one then>
Paul

12. Target OB rating of 10 plus (see wakeup)

13. Doorbell rigged to passarelle if possible, with rude sign telling visitors to get lost, it's private.


Paul

 

[EME]

Hammocks in the Med!

What ? hammocks in the Med? Last time Brits used Hammocks in the MED was day after Battle of the Nile. Definitely too onerous for the new breed to get into one of those things.

You also are missing the point Paul. Objective of Sun Beds is to be seen on , NOT for rest/sleep/relaxation/snoozing or anything like that.

Other mandatory requirements include :-

Crane
Easily removable engines''''''........................
in order to replace with MORE icemakers/fridges for Bolly etc. as you're unlikely to go anywhere far.

Not quite sure as to whether jets are good accessory or not. In order to impress the St Trop crowd the boat would need to transform into a F1-11 if you mentioned jets as most of them wiuldn't know what powers their boats anyway. ( U do appreciate that TCM's ability to use Bosch power tools, unseratand who made his engines, and change filters (allegedly) is absolutely unique in South of France? Actually being able to locate engines is relatively rare).



...I wanna boat please..