Average amount of anchor chain for the average anchorage in west Scotland!

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seafox67

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I've finally escaped from from the Clyde for the next two months to explore the west coast of Scotland!

I have a 31ft boat weighing in at about 5 tonne and 30 metres of chain with a delta anchor.

For the last few weeks I have been picking up cheap visitor moorings but have been thinking about starting to look at anchoring!

My gut feeling is that the 30 metre of chain (which came with the boat when I bought her) is only ideal for anchoring during the day!

Should I be looking at buying some more chain or would the average anchorage on the west coast of Scotland be fine with this amount of chain?


Cheers

Paul
PS... this may sound a very newbie question because I have not done overnight anchoring before! These two months is a learning experience, not just a holiday! lol
 
Oh, but there will be lots and lots of firmly-held views that take on the rigidity of dogma. Let me make a start.....

Many will go along with the idea that one should veer a scope of chain of about 4:1, in good holding and a sheltered spot. That translates to a High Water depth of about 7 metres, or 23 feet.
Plenty of West Coast anchorages where you may want to stop will be deeper than that.... so will require more scope to be veered. Should the wind increase - as it reliably will do - you will certainly want to be able to veer more.

There are those who will advocate you carrying rather more chain. I'm not one of them, for I sailed a friend's Rival 34 around the West Coast and islands over several years. He had 2 x 40 metres of chain stowed, half in a cockpit cave locker. The boat had a permanent list, and I used 30-35 metres frequently.

The solution I'd offer is for you to have an additional rope anchor warp, perhaps 45metres x 15mm, and double-braid, preferably not 'laid', which you can attach easily and reliably to your anchor chain.

I'd also recommend you ship several loops of chain or wire rope, about 1.5-2metres diameter, which can be used around rocks, piles and rusty mooring rings, for additional abrasion-resistant security.

There's lots more, as others will attest, but that ought to give you some answer.

Here's a pic of Oban Bay in a summer gale.....


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And a couple of other anchorages you may find your way into....


47975146597_6bd19d1b90_z.jpg



47975159103_ee2f6dfbac_z.jpg



Someone will be along soon to tell you where they are. ;)
 
Never been to Scotland but I get the impression that you will require more chain or rope. 30m of chain only allows you to anchor in 9m of water max. Cheapest option is to splice on 50m of rope to give a bigger anchoring range. As soon as rope goes out you will need to increase the scope to 4 or even 5 times the depth and if windy possibly even more.
Anchoring is a science, art and skill, the ratios varying all the time!
 
I sail a 29 footer displacing about 4.5 tonnes in the area you are interested in. I have 60 metres of chain backed up by 40 metres of warp, regularly put out up to 40 metres of chain but have not needed more in eleven years (but never had to anchor in seriously adverse conditions). I would echo the advice about getting 40 to 50 metres of warp, but would suggest octoplait nylon rather than braid or three-strand, for easier handling. Do you have an anchor windlass? That would influence the type of warp you might choose and how you would attach it to the chain.
 
I think it might be useful if you declare what size of chain you have already and whether you have a windlass. You don't need to declare it but your age is also a factor as hauling in, if you extend your chain, say 50m of 8mm chain will save you a gym membership and if, surely not, its 10mm chain then it will be back breaking.

If you have no windlass and its 8mm I would advocate retiring the current 30m (you might consider carrying it as spare) and looking at replacing it with G40 6mm. I cannot comment on the length, but 50m or more looks as if it might cut the mustard, based on the previous posts. You can still extend the 6mm with nylon, anchor plait is very tactile and is easier to store. 6mm is lighter than 8mm, obviously, and will take up less room (again obviously) - you might find that the 50m of 6mm takes up about the same space as the current 8mm (?). If you are already using 6mm then buy a 'C; link (Techni in the UK supply the only reliable versions - made by Crosby - but I simply don't know if they come that small).

Zoidbergs suggestion of carry some short lengths of chain for wrapping round trees and rocks is an excellent idea - using shore lines is quite acceptable - but you will also need long enough lines to reach shore :)

On the same theme carrying a second anchor is also very prudent. 2 anchors deployed in a 'V' will reduce veering (and veering is one cause of anchors dragging) but if you reduce veering you will have a more comfortable stay. People also lose anchors (hence a reason that spare should be big enough to act as the primary). If you don't believe the idea people lose anchors - what else keeps the very many anchor makers in business? I would advocate your second anchor is a different style, fluke, or concave (look at the Knox website) and for fluke look at the new range of aluminium anchors (Fortress look alikes) from Lewmar.

Jonathan
 
A mixed rode of chain plus rope is perfectly acceptable from the anchoring point of view but there can be some practical difficulties. Feeding rope down a pipe is one of them dependent on anchor locker design. My GK29 did not have an opening locker lid making rope almost impossible. Mixed rodes single-handed may require some dexterity for similar reasons, especially in a lot of wind. Gravity works well with chain but not so well with rope. You need to keep an eye on the splice as this will remain permanently wet and can corrode the chain quite quickly.
 
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We carry 33m of chain spiced to 20m of octoplait on our Albin Vega.

Maximum depth we generally anchor in is 7m at HW, which allowing for an extra metre from the bow gives 8x4=32m for a 4-1 scope, which attached to a 10Kg spade I have regularly found ample in windspeeds up to 30 knots. We sleep soundly, partly due to using Antares Charts in most of the places we anchor, partly due to the Anchor Watch app on my phone and largely due to the fact that the Spade has never dragged in 16 years.

The Vega is relatively shallow draft, so we can often sneak inside other, larger boats. But for any boat cruising the West Coast of Scotland I would not expect to need more than 40m of chain unless you are intending to anchor in some unusual places.


- W
 
We carry around 50m. of 8mm. (Moody S31), only because we have it, but rarely have to deploy more than half of it, mainly because at the bottom end we have a Spade anchor. I am convinced it is a confidence thing, our current anchor is the best we could buy and lets me sleep a lot better than in the early days when we were using a CQR. Almost every time in the past when we dragged it was because of kelp. Since then we have tried various Bruces, and a Manson supreme on different {larger} boats. I would be quite happy to continue cruising the West Coast with 30m. plus a similar length of warp and have been considering reducing what I carry to get some weight out of the bow. The benefit of the surplus chain over warp is that it can reduce the tendency to swing but unlike the Clyde there is usually plenty of space, in places like Loch Torridon or Loch Ewe or anywhere all the way up the Long Island you will probably have a secure anchorage just to yourself.
Out here we have plenty of very good anchorages with real shelter at reasonable depth, far more than on the Clyde, what is more useful, as recommended above, is a set of Antares charts.
 
Not sure that West Coast anchorages with their tidal range and kelp covered rocks on the shoreline lend themselves to tying to rocks or trees I can only recall seeing it once in forty years or so, ( I think it was Loch Aline) it would require massive lengths of rope and considerable dexterity, might be better to focus on a simpler solution?
 
Thank you so much for your comments and feedback. I've definitely got some ideas to think about!

My anchor size 15Kg with 10mm chain on a windlass. I'm also a bilge keel so can get in quite shallow.

Cheers

Paul
 
seafox67 said:
Thank you so much for your comments and feedback. I've definitely got some ideas to think about!

My anchor size 15Kg with 10mm chain on a windlass. I'm also a bilge keel so can get in quite shallow.

Cheers

Paul
Click to expand...

10mm chain is heavy for a 31 footer. Would have thought that a longer length of 8mm chain would be better and lighter, or even high load 6mm chain. However, that sort of change would mean replacing the windlass capstan so maybe on the list of future upgrades rather than for now.
When considering length of chin needed for an anchorage, always need to remember the length needed from waterline to chain stopper/cleat - circa 5 m on our boat, when pulling at the chain, so a 30m chain becomes effectively 25m.
 
10mm chain on a 31' yacht is seriously overkill and any suggestion of increasing the weight in the bow will reduce your sailing ability even further. I know that's what you inherited but my recommendation, as mentioned above would be G40 6mm (which would mean a new gypsy). Extending the chain is throwing good money after bad.

I would look at adding rope, for any extra length of rode you require.

If you are flush then consider a new gypsy (but they are seriously expensive) and go the 6mm G40 route, your sailing and anchoring performance will improve in leap and bounds.

Second hand gypsies are floating about, I have an 8mm one for a Muir Atlantic (we down sized to 6mm - on a 38' cat 7t). Gypsies are manufacturer and model specific - you would need a specific gypsy for your windlass.

Your 15kg anchor is a serious anchor for a 31' yacht, again we use the alloy equivalent to 15kg anchors (one of which is a Spade - see post above for another vote). But there are many equally good anchors.

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
10mm chain on a 31' yacht is seriously overkill and any suggestion of increasing the weight in the bow will reduce your sailing ability even further. I know that's what you inherited but my recommendation, as mentioned above would be G40 6mm (which would mean a new gypsy). Extending the chain is throwing good money after bad.

I would look at adding rope, for any extra length of rode you require.

If you are flush then consider a new gypsy (but they are seriously expensive) and go the 6mm G40 route, your sailing and anchoring performance will improve in leap and bounds.

Second hand gypsies are floating about, I have an 8mm one for a Muir Atlantic (we down sized to 6mm - on a 38' cat 7t). Gypsies are manufacturer and model specific - you would need a specific gypsy for your windlass.

Your 15kg anchor is a serious anchor for a 31' yacht, again we use the alloy equivalent to 15kg anchors (one of which is a Spade - see post above for another vote). But there are many equally good anchors.

Jonathan
Click to expand...

How long is a piece of string? All boats are different, everybody has different ideas of ideal depths. I've had 2 boats on the westcoast, 35 and 42feet. the smaller had 50m of 8mm chain with a 15Kg Manson. I rarely used over 40m chain.
I now have 50m of 10mm chain with a Knox anchor, which works well. Rarely need over 40m out. I see no great advantage in lots of rope rode, most of the time - where do you find swinging room for +-70m of rode and a boatlength? Many places are impossible with a wind shift and that length. If you can cope with a shallow anchorage - good and well, otherwise you need to think of alternatives. Perhaps a rope rode allows you to put 40m on the bottom in deeper water, albeit with more swinging radius. Do what you feel comfortable with.
 
Our Southerly 46 has a draft of 3.3m with the keel down, so this will be OTT for the original question.
We have 80m of 10mm chain and 30m of nylon multiplait.
I plan to anchor in around 10m at high water, 6 or 7m at low water.
I never use less than 30m of chain, typically between 30 and 40m, I have had 60m out in storm conditions (in 10m of water), never got to the nylon, but might have to use it some day, in a storm in deeper water.
We have 20kg spade, which I rate very highly.
However, I always have to consider, 40m of chain, plus a 14m boat, gives a swinging circle of about 100m in diameter, so I have to be very careful to ensure we have room to swing and are not going to go aground or hit another boat, if the wind (or tide) changes direction by 180 degrees.
We anchor most nights and have spent over a 100 days a year, for the last 10 years, onboard, with very few disturbed nights.
Many West Coast anchorages are quite deep right up to just below the low water mark, and then they shallow very quickly.
 
The OP is only spending 2 months on the west coast. So forking out on a new length of chain seems a bit unnecessary, IMHO.
30m is certainly a bare minimum but we got away with it for the first few years, sometimes having to add a bit of warp. Our next boat had 40m and that has always been sufficient, although we do frequently use all of that.
 
Thanks again for the feedback.

I've managed to buy 30m of warp off another boat today so i'll give this a go with my 30m chain. I'm sure the first few nights will be still be sleepless! lol


Cheers
Paul
 
I have a fraction over 30m of 8mm and a Rocna 15 on the end of it for the Bristol Channel (which in itself I don't think is long enough) but I also have 100mm of 14mm nylon octoplait I use to extend. I anchored out for the first time on this boat on my own not long back and had about 50m in total for about 14m of HW and slept like a log (apart from a little LW calculation check at 2am).

It's much comfort having that warp, I can use it to extend my bow anchor and at the same time for a kedge, a 2nd bow anchor should I feel the need, a ridiculous amount of scope or even to tow a drogue if the fit hits the shan. I can use it as a shore line or a tow line and anything else you could possibly think of. It wasn't a huge amount of money (plus the cost of the Rocna), considering it could save my boat and possibly my life. Only having 3rd party only I felt it a worthwhile investment.

When my chain comes to the end of it's life which won't be for a while I'll be quite happy to put 50m of 8mm chain up the bow. This should cope with most usual situations unless I need to anchor deep or get seriously caught out then the warp comes out. As they say everything on a boat should have at least 2 uses 100m of warp, 15kg on total is a good shout imo.
 
seafox67 said:
Thank you so much for your comments and feedback. I've definitely got some ideas to think about!

My anchor size 15Kg with 10mm chain on a windlass. I'm also a bilge keel so can get in quite shallow.

Cheers

Paul
Click to expand...
I have a 34’ Jeanneau with 50m of 10mm and a 15kg Rocna. Anchor lots so your set up will be fine with the addition of your warp. As mentioned above get the Antares charts, best £11 you will spend.
 
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