Attempt by our Committee to change the Club rules without notifying the members

[Birdseye]

The is a regular reference to the RYA guidlelines.
They are just that guidlelines and NOT rules. Any national body of any pastime or sport worth it's salt will have guidlelines but they are there mainly for people who may wish to start a club but may not have all the information to do so. They will take on more meaning depending on the size of the club. When you get to mega sized clubs who charge more to join and probably employ full time staff, the stakes are a lot higher and probably involve the legal profession.:

Not as simple as that, as the RYA legal beagle will tell you. If this matter ever got to law, the beak would want to know amongst many other things just what the the National Body viewed as the correct way of doing things. Particularly the case in nautical / sailing issues but also the case in how clubs are run. There has already been at least one court case where this happened. I can remember the then RYA head of legal services explaining it to me but I'll be damned if I can remember the details. Something about the allocation of moorings I think,. Probably come back to me in the middle of the night

 

[steveeasy]

Like a number of others, I have been gripped by this thread for months but have refrained from posting.

However, I have to ask what Floyd Raser's agenda is, other than being gratuitously offensive.

Hi,
It makes no sense to me either. its gone on and on and on and on, not the thread but the whatever you want to call it. still a moderator has just Pmd me, so with a bit of luck Nick can get on with his agenda, and Floyd could try to get over his very evident problem with someone he has never met and never will. As I keep suggesting continually, just try to say something Nice. what absolutely amazes me is both Floyd and nick could well just laugh it all of so easily, why is it so dam hard.

Steveeasy

 

[Otter]

It's sort of addictive for everyone involved.

 

[Seajet]

Hi,
It makes no sense to me either. its gone on and on and on and on, not the thread but the whatever you want to call it. still a moderator has just Pmd me, so with a bit of luck Nick can get on with his agenda, and Floyd could try to get over his very evident problem with someone he has never met and never will. As I keep suggesting continually, just try to say something Nice. what absolutely amazes me is both Floyd and nick could well just laugh it all of so easily, why is it so dam hard.

Steveeasy

Steve,

well as we know only one has been offensive, and it wasn't Nick.

You've tried admirably to inject some humour, maybe Floyd has dug himself a hole.

 

[l'escargot]

I quite like Floyd's input and I think Nick should be grateful, this thread would have died long ago without him...:encouragement:

 

[Floyd Raser]

Steve,

well as we know only one has been offensive, and it wasn't Nick.

You've tried admirably to inject some humour, maybe Floyd has dug himself a hole.

Hey everyone, Nick hasn't been offensive. Well stuff me! I made it all up, that bit about him calling Floyd Raser an idiot. It's not here in writing at all, way back on this thread. I made it all up just so I could come here an attract attention to myself. Damn! I didn't even see myself doing it either.

Kindly explain this hole I've dug myself into? I fail to see that either. What I can see though is just another pathetic attempt at trying to find something say on here; well you didn't find anything Seajet, but you posted anyway.

 

[Floyd Raser]

Hi,
It makes no sense to me either. its gone on and on and on and on, not the thread but the whatever you want to call it. still a moderator has just Pmd me, so with a bit of luck Nick can get on with his agenda, and Floyd could try to get over his very evident problem with someone he has never met and never will. As I keep suggesting continually, just try to say something Nice. what absolutely amazes me is both Floyd and nick could well just laugh it all of so easily, why is it so dam hard.

Steveeasy

Wow steve, a moderator just pm'd you! I'm impressed. So should I expect a ban soon or some other action? You are suggesting that the moderators are about to take some action? Can I therefore take it that if there is no action taken in a couple of days then your moderator can be listed alongside Nick's legal advisors and supporting club members, in the column marked "Probably don't exist"?

Oh and by the way. I'm still enjoying posting here.

 

[Seajet]

Floyd,

I didn't see Nick call you an idiot, but if he did that was just a technically correct desription, not offensive as you have been.

Escargot doesn't seem to realise you have only appeared lately and been little but offensive, but I have been following.

You called me gullible for believing Nick's patient explanation of events, for a start.

I did not see any need to explain the hole you have dug yourself, but the fact mod's are apparently on to you - and Steveasy has tried to engage any sense of humour you may have behind your agenda with no luck - says it more than adequately.

 

[Floyd Raser]

Not as simple as that, as the RYA legal beagle will tell you. If this matter ever got to law, the beak would want to know amongst many other things just what the the National Body viewed as the correct way of doing things. Particularly the case in nautical / sailing issues but also the case in how clubs are run. There has already been at least one court case where this happened. I can remember the then RYA head of legal services explaining it to me but I'll be damned if I can remember the details. Something about the allocation of moorings I think,. Probably come back to me in the middle of the night

Thanks Birdseye.
Do you know it would be lovely to be shot down in flames by a bloody good argument based on facts, rather than someone with nothing to say except "He's got an agenda!" You are a breath of fresh air!

I take your point as you obviously have previous experience. Try and remember the details please; it would interesting to know where the threshold could be for court action.

 

[Seajet]

If it looks like an agenda and sounds like an agenda, it's probably an agenda.

You have shot yourself down in flames Floyd, by the simple expedients of

A, being obvious but claiming to be impartial

B, being furtive about your allegiances

C, never joining a reasoned discussion.

D, being offensive then saying everyone else is

Apart from that you're fireproof.

 

[Floyd Raser]

Floyd,

I didn't see Nick call you an idiot, but if he did that was just a technically correct desription, not offensive as you have been.

Escargot doesn't seem to realise you have only appeared lately and been little but offensive, but I have been following.

You called me gullible for believing Nick's patient explanation of events, for a start.

I did not see any need to explain the hole you have dug yourself, but the fact mod's are apparently on to you - and Steveasy has tried to engage any sense of humour you may have behind your agenda with no luck - says it more than adequately.

You didn't see where Nick referred to Floyd as an idiot. You have been following. You believe Nick's explanation. You believe the mod's are onto me. (By that you are suggesting they are targetting me for special attention; they are, or should be "onto" all of us at all times). I think you need to prise open the other eye.

You had a go at Floyd for suggesting someone around here may be on drugs. I won't mention his name again as I know how it winds you up. But shortly afterwards the same person said "Well we all know where we've heard that before don't we?" which has become something of a catchphrase. He then accused Floyd of being on the committee. So he's saying a member of the committee of a club of which said bloke had been a member and past committee member himself, suggested he had taken drugs. What a thing to admit. The mods could ban Floyd for hitting the truth by accident.

I reckon that if I posted "Good morning" on here, a certain person would accuse me of being Susanna Reid!
In my dreams.

Still loving it Steve

 

[Floyd Raser]

If it looks like an agenda and sounds like an agenda, it's probably an agenda.

You have shot yourself down in flames Floyd, by the simple expedients of

A, being obvious but claiming to be impartial

B, being furtive about your allegiances

C, never joining a reasoned discussion.

D, being offensive then saying everyone else is

Apart from that you're fireproof.

It's the asbestos pants.

 

[Concerto]

Do I believe NickC has a case to pursue? Yes. He was wrongly treated by the club he had been a long term member.

The problem is the club are still ignoring all attempts to deal with the matter in a correct fashion according to their rules. NickC is in a difficult place to get a fair hearing at the club, so he finally resorted to this forum. In his situation he has no other real option if the the club "officials" continue to ignore him. Hopefully this thread reaches the club members and they ask for explinations.

NickC feels very sore at his treatment and quite rightly so. In the past I had not dissimilar treatment by a sailing organisation (not a club) where they acted outside the rules they set for a series competition and fixed my rating so I could never win. It resulted in a protest at the end of the season, which they threw out. But I appealed to the RYA and won. A lot of time was expended but I still came away dissolutioned as no correction to the races sailed was made. End result was I gave up racing as I felt cheated out of winning a number of races.

So when I read what Floyd Raser has contributed to this thread, I realise he has made more posts and longer posts than NickC. Fine you are welcome to put an opposite point of view on this forum, but it seems to me you get more pleasure spouting your point of view on points of order that any real contribution. Others have said you have dug your own hole, well if I had to choose between meeting you or NickC, it would be NickC every time. Generally most sailors are tollerant people and over the 50 years since I started sailing I have learnt how to accept what the weather and boats throw at me, may be Floyd Raser you have a lot to still learn in your boating life. No doubt you will respond and keep this thread alive for even longer. If you were sensible you would walk away and stop posting on this thread, and get a life with your boat and sail happily into the sunset.

 

[l'escargot]

Floyd,

I didn't see Nick call you an idiot, but if he did that was just a technically correct desription, not offensive as you have been.

Escargot doesn't seem to realise you have only appeared lately and been little but offensive, but I have been following.

You called me gullible for believing Nick's patient explanation of events, for a start.

I did not see any need to explain the hole you have dug yourself, but the fact mod's are apparently on to you - and Steveasy has tried to engage any sense of humour you may have behind your agenda with no luck - says it more than adequately.

Floyd joined in March - it's in his profile and in the top bar of every post he makes if you bother to look - and has probably contributed more sense in that time than you have in all the years you've been here....

 

[Floyd Raser]

You had a go at Floyd for suggesting someone around here may be on drugs. I won't mention his name again as I know how it winds you up. But shortly afterwards the same person said "Well we all know where we've heard that before don't we?" which has become something of a catchphrase. He then accused Floyd of being on the committee. So he's saying a member of the committee of a club of which said bloke had been a member and past committee member himself, suggested he had taken drugs. What a thing to admit. The mods could ban Floyd for hitting the truth by accident.

I never read the post about "when shared ownership goes wrong" but does this compare? I could say I never identified the person above.
I could post a picture and details of an oversized outboard and boat and claim to be trying to keep thing anonymouse. Doesn't the fact that there is only one such boat give things away? Surely the people and club involved are identified by inference?
Before anyone starts, I repeat: I never read the thread so just guessing again, in the name of getting to the truth.

 

[steveeasy]

Hi Floyd,
I was surprised, not impressed. Good I hope you do have fun here, thats the whole point of it.

Steveeasy

 

[Floyd Raser]

Do I believe NickC has a case to pursue? Yes. He was wrongly treated by the club he had been a long term member.

The problem is the club are still ignoring all attempts to deal with the matter in a correct fashion according to their rules. NickC is in a difficult place to get a fair hearing at the club, so he finally resorted to this forum. In his situation he has no other real option if the the club "officials" continue to ignore him. Hopefully this thread reaches the club members and they ask for explinations.

NickC feels very sore at his treatment and quite rightly so. In the past I had not dissimilar treatment by a sailing organisation (not a club) where they acted outside the rules they set for a series competition and fixed my rating so I could never win. It resulted in a protest at the end of the season, which they threw out. But I appealed to the RYA and won. A lot of time was expended but I still came away dissolutioned as no correction to the races sailed was made. End result was I gave up racing as I felt cheated out of winning a number of races.

So when I read what Floyd Raser has contributed to this thread, I realise he has made more posts and longer posts than NickC. Fine you are welcome to put an opposite point of view on this forum, but it seems to me you get more pleasure spouting your point of view on points of order that any real contribution. Others have said you have dug your own hole, well if I had to choose between meeting you or NickC, it would be NickC every time. Generally most sailors are tollerant people and over the 50 years since I started sailing I have learnt how to accept what the weather and boats throw at me, may be Floyd Raser you have a lot to still learn in your boating life. No doubt you will respond and keep this thread alive for even longer. If you were sensible you would walk away and stop posting on this thread, and get a life with your boat and sail happily into the sunset.

I thank you for not resorting to offensive language. Your middle paragraph tells of how you were treated, you won but were dissolutioned. That's the message that countless of us (yes, US; that's how I came into this) have tried to tell Nick it's a futile exersise. So how would you rate Nick's chances of a settled future at the club if he won any kind of case against them?

I don't like to qualify myself to post, as you haven't until now but try this: My experiences have been similar to yours but not in sailing. A club championship was rigged by a committee who changed the rules as they saw fit, and the events calendar. I challenged them at the agm and put myself forward for chairman. I got in. I fought constant battles with committee for 12 months then got in again, against a challenge from the bloke I ousted. After another 12 months of battles I gave up as I had a career and a young family to look after. A hobby is supposed to be a bit of fun, not a load of hassle. The career involved courses on disciplinary procedures where one learned to not accept one side of a story without checking all the facts; you end up sacking someone unfairly etc.
So I don't accept that NickC is representing the whole truth until I have firm evidence. At the moment I still think it is six of one and half a dozen of the other and they all deserve each other.

After Nick made insults the barriers were torn down and now I'm here for the fun of it.
I still think accusing someone of being on the club committee (posting on here undercover) apart from being over dramatic, is insulting to the person AND the committee. Please take the time to explain to me if I have that wrong.

 

[VicS]

So what was the response to this

• I fully sympathise with you. I feel you have been treated incredibly badly and I will do everything within my power to resolve this issue, to get you a full apology from the Committee and to get you reinstated as a member.
  
• Hard luck. I am in complete agreement with the Committee and fully support the action they have taken. In my opinion you have made your bed and can now lie in it.
  
• Leave me out of this. I am not getting involved, As far as I am concerned this conversation never took place.

Or something else ?

It does not look as though we will ever know the answer to my question.

Perhaps the Committee member in question just walked away without replying

 

[Concerto]

Floyd Raser, thank you for explaining your background as to why you have taken such an interest in this thread. I understand your position about two sides to every story. It is really strange that the club "officials" have not openly taken action to defend their actions to balance the discussion or have this thread stopped, they certainly know of its existance. It must be a massive problem that is beyond their will to sort out, so they are just sitting tight and hoping it all goes away.

I can also understand where NickC came from when adverse comments started. With most people on the forum using a tag rather than their own name, it is imposible to know who is who and what connections they have. He was right to think possibly some of the club "officials" were contributing to the thread. Over time most have been cleared of that accusation - including yourself.

With only the basis of what NickC has contributed about the problems he has had at the club - the mooring issue, the outboard debacle and his expulsion - all make the situation more likely that he has been telling the truth. That oversize outboard is really the deal clincher for me, especially as other parties to the shared ownership explicitly denied its use to NickC.

You may continue to think it is six of one and half a dozen of the other, but unfortunately I do not and feel the vast majority of the forum think in a similar way. It seems NickC is getting on with his life as he is spending a lot less time on this thread than you. Your contribtions are certainly aiding him by keeping this thread in the active list on the forum, and that can only cause even more problems for the club "officials" over time. So I congratulate you on doing a lot of NickC's work for him. Eventually this thread may go global, as is the way of the internet, so keep on contributing to help NickC get the accusations that caused his expulsion be put to a full meeting of all club members. Then they can decide if he was expelled according to the club rules. That is the only real solution to this problem.

 

[Floyd Raser]

Floyd joined in March - it's in his profile and in the top bar of every post he makes if you bother to look - and has probably contributed more sense in that time than you have in all the years you've been here....

Thank you. I have never courted support so that means a lot.