Attacked by an Orca near A Coruna

[FlyingGoose]

Another attack at begins at 8:36 in the video. It is in German and they are crossing the Bay of Biscay. I tried auto translate option in Youtube and it was ridiculous as usual. But seemed to say that something about the rudder and wheel.

Angegriffen is German for Attacked.

What attack looked like what dolphins do on a boat this is getting silly season and is rather pathetic and sad the way we are drawn to such stories , because of the drama , if you do not want encounters with sea life may I suggest you do not go sailing and take up sheep farming

 

[cherod]

On the news to day another yacht towed in after being attacked by orcas off Galician coast,Sunday. 20septemberWas a catamaran but did not suffer much damage

no indication of why it had to be towed in, were both rudders damaged beyond use ? would appear the orcas are loosing some of their prowess / strength considering the amount of "attacks" by these large creatures on relatively small boats and still no visual evidence of , and in some cases no , damage .

 

[cherod]

You have not answered the questions. Why, according to you, are the Spanish pods' numbers in freefall ? You quote "all the papers who ran with this story " and that simply is not good enough. No citations, no verifiable references, = no belief.

If you are confident enough to stand by your research, then give details of your paper(s) or other published works. This is not putting you on the spot, it is asking you for facts, not what otherwise appears to be an emotional, anthropomorphic, and baseless hypothesis.

have i missed the " citations , verifiable references " to actual damage done by " attacks " , some evidence of contact but just more media storys .

 

[FlyingGoose]

You have not answered the questions. Why, according to you, are the Spanish pods' numbers in freefall ? You quote "all the papers who ran with this story " and that simply is not good enough. No citations, no verifiable references, = no belief.

If you are confident enough to stand by your research, then give details of your paper(s) or other published works. This is not putting you on the spot, it is asking you for facts, not what otherwise appears to be an emotional, anthropomorphic, and baseless hypothesis.

I really don't get your point here I can give you a list , but try google scholar type in decline of orcas in the Eastern Atlantic Spanish coast and work through the many papers written in scientific papers , this is not hard , you will not have access to the web of knowledge as this is linked via universities and gives gives an even bigger range of papers with full access (they are copyrighted so I cannot link them)
Oh wait I have access must be that dam pesky wife of mine being a Dr of Ecology what a fake she is
You have no association to animal biology nor ecology I have given my qualifications freely , and my hypotheses have been backed up by those experts who the newspapers have quoted ,
You only want to believe what you want and nothing I say will convince you other wise , you have a history of this in many of my posts in the past and even when I have proven you wrong with scientific data or common sense you relentlessly do not believe it
I really do not care as I said I am happy in my skin and knowledge and can have a sound argument and if proven wrong accept this with grace and courtesy , something I believe you are lacking .

Sorry should have been eastern not western.

 

[cherod]

Please provide citations, in proper scientific style, for that statement. And given the orcas travel long distances, please explain why only the Spanish coast appears to thus affected. I take it that you have formal qualifications at the proper level for making these claims ?

give it a rest man , if you dont know that almost all marine animals / species are in serious environmental danger ( as well as us humans ) then what the hell are you doing on a boat forum !!!

 

[sarabande]

What is the causal link between marine animals in danger and being on a boat forum ? You are falling into FG's trap of emotional inclusiveness.

 

[cherod]

What is the causal link between marine animals in danger and being on a boat forum ? You are falling into FG's trap of emotional inclusiveness.

i would not say it is casual in the least ,, unless you are one of the ones who do not have a boat , have no affinity with the seas or its environment and are only on here to cause trouble . then i do not understand how you do not see that

 

[FlyingGoose]

Indeed, FG should be required to follow standard Harvard Referencing

Like all the other posts on this thread!

Fact is, he’s advancing some very compelling arguments. I would certainly be happy to fix the occasional rudder as a price to share the ocean with these wonderful animals.

Referencing is not required on a public forum only when writing scientific essays and papers ,ci am well versed in the Harvard way of referencing as a biology graduate we are taught this in week one .
I am also confident that my wife who,s work has been cited many times understands the need for robust referencing
I am not here to do the leg work because some one demands it. As I say I know what I am talking about.
When a yatch RYA instrutor comes onto this site and gives valuable knowledge we do not demand their certificates and proven track record. So it seems those who lack knowledge of a subject are intimidated by others knowledge and would like to challenge this and here is the rub , .... they do not provide scientific evidence to counter my claims which is the bedrock of proving the null hypothesis in biological sciences.

 

[dom]

What is the causal link between marine animals in danger and being on a boat forum ? You are falling into FG's trap of emotional inclusiveness.

I'm not quite sure of the point you are trying to make? Surely not to put FlyingGoose to a standard of scientific proof to which no other poster on this forum has even come close. NOt to forget that FG has cited a couple of scientific links which a quick Google reveals is consistent with a vast body of contemporary scientific papers.

Neither am I sure why this matter is so contentious, perhaps the whale was just scratching its back for all we know. Whatever the reason turns out to be, many of us doubt that the bit of 'dunting' we are looking at here is the result of an "attack" by arguably the most powerful predator on earth!

What - I hope - we can agree on is that we're visitors in their back yard and we should respect that and live and let live.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Referencing is not required on a public forum only when writing scientific essays and papers ,ci am well versed in the Harvard way of referencing as a biology graduate we are taught this in week one .
I am also confident that my wife who,s work has been cited many times understands the need for robust referencing
I am not here to do the leg work because some one demands it. As I say I know what I am talking about.
When a yatch RYA instrutor comes onto this site and gives valuable knowledge we do not demand their certificates and proven track record. So it seems those who lack knowledge of a subject are intimidated by others knowledge and would like to challenge this and here is the rub , .... they do not provide scientific evidence to counter my claims which is the bedrock of proving the null hypothesis in biological sciences.

You've asked for evidence of damage and doubted the account of our forum Yachtmaster and delivery skipper, but you don't need to reference? What's sauce for the goo...

 

[FlyingGoose]

I'm not quite sure what point you are trying to make here? Surely not to put FlyingGoose to a standard of scientific proof to which no other poster on this forum has even come close. As it happens FG has cited a couple of scientific links which a quick Google seems consistent with the vast body of contemporary scientific papers.

Neither am I sure why this is so contentious, perhaps the whale was just scratching its back for all we know. Whatever the reason, many of us doubt that an "attack" by arg


FG, I'm agreeing with you - read my post again !!

Sorry for that getting myself into a pickle

 

[dom]

Referencing is not required on a public forum only when writing scientific essays and papers ,ci am well versed in the Harvard way of referencing as a biology graduate we are taught this in week one .
I am also confident that my wife who,s work has been cited many times understands the need for robust referencing
I am not here to do the leg work because some one demands it. As I say I know what I am talking about.
When a yatch RYA instrutor comes onto this site and gives valuable knowledge we do not demand their certificates and proven track record. So it seems those who lack knowledge of a subject are intimidated by others knowledge and would like to challenge this and here is the rub , .... they do not provide scientific evidence to counter my claims which is the bedrock of proving the null hypothesis in biological sciences.

FG - I'm agreeing with you!!

Edit.... just spotted the lines have been untwisted

 

[FlyingGoose]

You've asked for evidence of damage and doubted the account of our forum Yachtmaster and delivery skipper, but you don't need to reference? What's sauce for the goo...

Science deals with facts and robust evidence , still awaiting the picture or video of an attack and the amount of damage and teeth Mark's on hull
Beyond reasonable doubt ,
Yes these encounters seem at odds with their natural foraging and social interactions, but to define it so quickly as an attack is rather a human trait of fear , publicity, annoyed at a damaged boat etc
All the videos posted and here is were we can get some evidence , does not show an orca hitting a boat they all show orcas swimming by or following, As said many times these are not whales they are dolphins , and are doing what dolphins around the world do , they interact with boats
I am pretty confident that a dolphin in the smaller classes have tagged a boat or had an encounter with a rudder,on the thousands of encounter yearly , the only difference here is that the orca weights 7 tonnes against fibreglass and a steel rod the damage we see is rather slight if they intended to harm the inanimate object called a yatch

 

[laika]

Let's us not forget the orcas around the spanish coast are now endangered as their numbers are in free fall.

Please provide citations, in proper scientific style, for that statement. [...] I take it that you have formal qualifications at the proper level for making these claims ?

One of many I did not want to show you up with the unneeded statement from yourself

The abstract you quote as addressing sarabande's question estimates the population at 39 members in 2011. The abstract doesn't mention a population trend and those of us without academic access or the inclination to buy it cannot see the rest of it. However Foot and Esteban's 2019 assessment for the ICNU's red list estimates the population to be "stable" (although critically endangered).
(PDF) Orcinus orca (Strait of Gibraltar subpopulation). The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species 2019: e.T132948040A132949669

(*my* research is just google-fu: I am not claiming to be a dolphin expert)

I have given my qualifications freely

Not exactly. I think some people may think you are implying that you are employed as a cetacean researcher, ie your research is funded by a research grant and results in papers presented at conferences and published in journals. I don't think you've explicitly made that claim and it does conflict with some of the things you've told us about yourself in the lounge so perhaps by "research" you mean reading books and going on whale watching holidays for personal interest reasons. There are some idiot academics and many talented amateurs so clarification that it's "interest" rather than "employment" imho doesn't change the validity of your posts but it may address sarabande's second question.

 

[FlyingGoose]

The abstract you quote as addressing sarabande's question estimates the population at 39 members in 2011. The abstract doesn't mention a population trend and those of us without academic access or the inclination to buy it cannot see the rest of it. However Foot and Esteban's 2019 assessment for the ICNU's red list estimates the population to be "stable" (although critically endangered).
(PDF) Orcinus orca (Strait of Gibraltar subpopulation). The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species 2019: e.T132948040A132949669

(*my* research is just google-fu: I am not claiming to be a dolphin expert)



Not exactly. I think some people may think you are implying that you are employed as a cetacean researcher, ie your research is funded by a research grant and results in papers presented at conferences and published in journals. I don't think you've explicitly made that claim and it does conflict with some of the things you've told us about yourself in the lounge so perhaps by "research" you mean reading books and going on whale watching holidays for personal interest reasons. There are some idiot academics and many talented amateurs so clarification that it's "interest" rather than "employment" imho doesn't change the validity of your posts but it may address sarabande's second question.

One needs to understand the phrase critically endangered!! I Understand this in the biological and ecological terms maybe you should read up on this
39 stable in 2011 we are 9 years ahead and as quoted by those researching this particular pod in the guardian newspaper their numbers have declined

Part 2 of your question is an interesting one
I am medically retired at 49 , worked since I was 15 had a passion for orcas after watching a move on an old vhf at the age of 10 with an orca got absolutely enthralled . Like most people then grew a passion.
No need to give you my careers I have had a few and the qualifications to go with them
I had an opportunity as a mature student to leave my job and study my passion Zoology with many bolt on courses I could get my hands on the wife followed suit and we both went to university
I then went to masters the wife PHD after gaining a first class honours degree.
I have subsequently worked in research. And voluntary work on marine cetaceans around the world. Keeping up to date with my passion.the orca for now on 35 years , yes a hobby a passion a love of these animals and the qualifications to better understand . Research and comment on them.
I joined the WWF when I was 5 and regularly volunteered when in my normal job on holidays etc to do survey work.
I attended seminars and talks were I could when experts in their field would come into town
Also all survey work was done with experts in their field .
It would be a strange person indeed that did not learn anything or listen to those around them
I also did not realise my lifestyle history is being picked together on fragmented posts on a forum so that members can pick it apart .
Most of my posts in the past in the lounge were of the biological nature, we as humans and mammals share the shame biological make up. blood is blood viruses are viruses they all do the same thing
I am well versed in how to cite, read, access, write scientific papers .
My house is full of many books on marine cetaceans animal behaviour marine ecology , by well respected people in their field.
An expert no knowledge is never ending a good scientific basis on marine mammals absolutely.
I do not tend to use my ailments as an asperger's to make a point but our Brain's work differently. When we have a passion we are a dog with a bone , we will focus with extreme intent to learn, we also store information easily and absorb what we see and hear and are ably to remember these facts many years on.
Yes my career has stopped but that is like saying a retired judge does not know the law or keeps up with it.

 

[laika]

One needs to understand the phrase critically endangered!! I Understand this in the biologicak and ecological terms maybe you should read up on this
39 stable in 2011 we are 9 years ahead and as quoted by those researching this particular pod in the guardian newspaper their numbers have declined

The "stable" assessment was in the 2019 red list assessment (linked above) by the guys whose abstract you had previously linked to. Not my field so I don't have a view on that assessment but to a layperson (who can google), a "stable" population doesn't conflict with being "critically endangered" if it's tiny.

 

[dom]

The only evidenced "attacks" going on here appear to be on Flying Goose!

Probably time to get off the man and back onto orcas -- got to be nicer to them mind, or they might knock our rudders clean off ?

 

[sarabande]

If someone writes a post with passion, it does not follow that the material cannot, nor should not, be challenged on the grounds of verifiability, repeatability, reproducibility and replicability. I am sure the OP would agree.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

When someone writes that they joined WWF at 5 you just know where to file the rest.

At 5 I wanted to be a killer whale and believed it was possible.

 

[dom]

If someone writes a post with passion, it does not follow that the material cannot, nor should not, be challenged on the grounds of verifiability, repeatability, reproducibility and replicability. I am sure the OP would agree.

In which vein, heightened by the fact that FG has stood up to a string of on-the-man tackles now, where is the evidence - if any - that this orca “attacked“any of these vessels with intent?

And by that I mean anywhere even close to the noble scientific standards of “verifiability, repeatability, reproducibility and replicability“ to which you aspire?