Associated Costs of Ownership relative to Boat Length?

[ross84]

Hello all,

As you may know, my idea is to go solo sailing on a pretty tight budget. I'm still in two minds about boat size, but favour smaller for financial reasons (small but solid, Vegas, Victorias, Sadlers, etc).

As discussed in detail in another thread, I'm very anxious about biting off more than I can chew, financially speaking. Better to sail a 26ft than have to go to work to keep a 32+ in the marina etc.

At my marina, to berth a 26ft monohull, it is £2,500 approx, a 32 comes in at £3,400. Maths isn't my strong point, but I think a 32ft Sadler is 23% larger than a 26, but I'd be paying the marina over 40% more money for that 20% extra space.

I know at sea that a 32 obviously has a lot of benefits over a 26, speed, stowage, etc but 40% is quite a price to pay. A thousand quid isn't much to some, but to me it's a three week cycling holiday somewhere warm etc.

My question being, would that 40% be pretty representative of not only long-term mooring, but night rates, maintenance, labour, lift outs, and replacement parts; sails, rigging, etc?

Cheers!

 

[Kukri]

I may be in a minority but I think much more depends on where you are going to keep the boat, what you are going to have done to her by other people, and so on.

The one that is really shattering is the cost of sails and covers because the costs of these (and paint) rise as the square of the length.


If thinking of marina bills, nothing is likely to be less than six metres, but you get an awful lot more boat at 12 metres and an awful lot more at 18 metres.

Another way of looking at it is that speed on passage increases in a fairly linear way but comfort below rises as the cube.

 

[RupertW]

I’ve owned a 24 footer and a 42 footer at the same time for 8 years.

Biggest differences in cost are as stated sails and marina fees.

The next biggest differences are based on how practical you are. If you can narrow down the costs to the parts alone then it’s not too bad - bigger boat parts are much more expensive but they are big enough not to be toys that can corrode or break easily so you shouldn’t have to buy them twice in your lifetime with the boat.

 

[Elessar]

Hello all,

As you may know, my idea is to go solo sailing on a pretty tight budget. I'm still in two minds about boat size, but favour smaller for financial reasons (small but solid, Vegas, Victorias, Sadlers, etc).

As discussed in detail in another thread, I'm very anxious about biting off more than I can chew, financially speaking. Better to sail a 26ft than have to go to work to keep a 32+ in the marina etc.

At my marina, to berth a 26ft monohull, it is £2,500 approx, a 32 comes in at £3,400. Maths isn't my strong point, but I think a 32ft Sadler is 23% larger than a 26, but I'd be paying the marina over 40% more money for that 20% extra space.

I know at sea that a 32 obviously has a lot of benefits over a 26, speed, stowage, etc but 40% is quite a price to pay. A thousand quid isn't much to some, but to me it's a three week cycling holiday somewhere warm etc.

My question being, would that 40% be pretty representative of not only long-term mooring, but night rates, maintenance, labour, lift outs, and replacement parts; sails, rigging, etc?

Cheers!

My rule of thumb is that total costs are closer to being proportional to boat displacement rather than boat length.

 

[awol]

Mooring prices are similar, certainly not £900 different and anchoring, in the sane parts of the country, is free for both.

 

[lw395]

Many things cost the same.
Looking at the things we've renewed, loos, VHFs, berth cushions, tenders, outboards, nav lights, cookers etc etc cost a lot and cost the same whatever boat they're going on.
However many batteries and solar panels you need to support your lifestyle cost the same.

Some stuff however has big jumps. As you go above certain sizes, you may find the cost escalates. There is more choice and a bigger market for smaller boats in some things.
Smaller boats, many of the blocks are more or less dinghy fittings, going up a size can more than double the cost.
Small boats can often use much cheaper places for haul out and storage.

OTOH, it is often true, in my experience, that smaller boats break things and wear them out far more than bigger boats doing the same sort of trips.
Depending on what you have in mind, a bigger boat may be viable to spend more nights at anchor and save on visitors' moorings.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

I don't think there is a difference in maintenance costs between 26ft and 32ft boats. The only real difference is the mooring costs due to the length.

 

[gertha]

The cost of boat ownership is directly related to its size.
Similar to boat speed , boat length squared multiplied by a factor.
Probably length in meters squared times 70 is close for a sterling figure.
This will also be close to 10 percent of value, if you are running a good boat in good condition.

The whole equation can be turned on its head , if you have a fixed budget per annum, find a boat on ten times this and you should be able to make ends meet.

The problem is where you keep the boat, the better the location the more you pay. Take the above figure and either half or double. It will give you Grimsby or Grimod as an option or may be English Harbour and Lowestoft. North Sea against the Med or Caribbean, you pays your money and you take your choice.

 

[rwoofer]

I have a 20 footer now, but did have a 44 footer in the past. My experience is that the running costs of the smaller boat are far greater as a proportion of the boats value. Just 3 years in a Marina would be more than the boat value (it is a 10 year old Jeanneau, not some MAB). I think the ratio would look just as bad if it was relative to boat volume/displacement. The big win is the ease of use, lack of maintenance etc. And that is why I stick with a smaller boat.

 

[Stemar]

Comfort and space go up with the cube of the boat length, but so does the amount of fettling needed to single hand. When my 24 footer has a strop coming alongside, I heave on a line and she shapes up. My friend's 38 footer laughs and pulls back. Forces when handling sails are very different, too. That isn't to say it can't be done but, IMO, there are big advantages to a smaller boat when single handing.

If you're on a tight budget, I'd forget about marinas unless you're planning on living aboard. You can get a year's mooring, plus a new dinghy and outboard for the price of a year in a marina. Join a club with a pontoon and you've got somewhere to work on the boat, people who'll give you a hand and, most likely, a cheap bar, and you may even be able to get a club mooring for next to nothing.

 

[Neeves]

Comfort and space go up with the cube of the boat length, but so does the amount of fettling needed to single hand. When my 24 footer has a strop coming alongside, I heave on a line and she shapes up. My friend's 38 footer laughs and pulls back. Forces when handling sails are very different, too. That isn't to say it can't be done but, IMO, there are big advantages to a smaller boat when single handing.

If you're on a tight budget, I'd forget about marinas unless you're planning on living aboard. You can get a year's mooring, plus a new dinghy and outboard for the price of a year in a marina. Join a club with a pontoon and you've got somewhere to work on the boat, people who'll give you a hand and, most likely, a cheap bar, and you may even be able to get a club mooring for next to nothing.

+1

Excuse me if I find it contradictory that the OP is looking to be frugal and in the same post is talking of keeping a yacht in a marina.

Now I should point out we are based in Sydney, that's the one in Australia, and and we keep our 20 year old 38' cat on a swing mooring (we lease the space from the State of New South Wales, but own and pay for the mooring itself to be serviced). It would never cross our minds to pay marina fees and have not done so since we owned the boat. We cruise extensively - and anchor exclusively. We maintain the boat ourselves - and have done since new. We do buy new sail, when necessary (so far only to increase the wardrobe nd one replacement) and invested in a heavy duty sewing machine to effect repairs. We do our own AF and engine maintenance. Because we sail regularly - we keep on top of maintenance (and service everything that needs servicing, windlass, water pumps etc).

Here the advantage of a marina is - you can walk to your boat. We need to use a dinghy and ferry any and everything we need - in multiple trips sometimes. Its hardly onerous to use a dinghy.

If this contradiction that the OP raises in my mind is clarified, the need for keeping the boat in a marina - maybe comments from others might be forthcoming.

I can think of better ways of spending those marina fees - on the boat being just one example.

Jonathan

 

[doug748]

I agree with many of the points already made eg

The difference in running a 32 foot boat over 26 ft is trivial - until you use a marina or have to buy sails.
Moving towards 35ft sails can get very expensive indeed.
Staying on a marina is ok for odd days but a mugs game in a singlehanded small boat. If you did travel far you would be doing your best to avoid it.

Good reasons why some folk were trying to nudge you up a bit in the other post.
The larger boat is much easier at sea, and nowadays almost as cheap to buy .

 

[KeithH]

Another things to consider are harbour dues and mooring fees (for swinging moorings). These charges may rise in a stepped way, rather than linearly.

For instance, in Chichester harbour the annual harbour dues go up each metre of length, so a 8.99 mtr boat would be charged £83.10 but a 9.02 mtr boat would be charged £99.10. Not that much difference you might say, but when you add mooring fees for a swinging mooring, the difference in the figures become more significant:

ie A3 mooring = up to 9 mtr = £1375
A2 mooring = >9 up to 11 mtr - £1728

So, on the step of 8 to 9 metres, there is a significant cost jump. I assume other harbours may have similar pricing steps. unless they charge by the actual length.

Regards

 

[johnalison]

This is one area where the old Thames Tonnage came in useful, as it gave a fair indication of a yacht's size. As others have said, it comes down to the maths. I don't think that any costs vary in a linear fashion. In a marina you are essentially paying for the area occupied, not the length. The cost of antifouling will increase by area. Sails are a bit more complex and probably increase exponentially, but most other costs will increase with the cube of the length.

 

[ross84]

Hi all -

Sorry to clarify - boat would also be lived on, not just parked in Marina. Here in Liverpool, I am not aware of any swing moorings anyway. I think it's the Marina or somewhere else that isn't Liverpool.

I really think I'm going to go for the midway point between 26-32 and probably look for something like a Vic 28, or most likely, a Sadler 29, which seems to give pretty good accommodations for a yacht of her abilities/age/cost.

Thanks for the advice - I never really considered that that most of the equipment costs the same whatever the size of the yacht.

 

[Kukri]

You are over thinking this.

Look at at least twenty boats. Pick out the two or three in the best condition and which show evidence of having been continually cared for, kept clean, and so on. What is the engine like, when was the rig renewed, and so on but above all is the gear the best that money can buy or cheaper equivalents? Picking a boat with really good gear in nice condition will save you far more than any small difference in length.

 

[steveeasy]

Hi all -

Sorry to clarify - boat would also be lived on, not just parked in Marina. Here in Liverpool, I am not aware of any swing moorings anyway. I think it's the Marina or somewhere else that isn't Liverpool.

I really think I'm going to go for the midway point between 26-32 and probably look for something like a Vic 28, or most likely, a Sadler 29, which seems to give pretty good accommodations for a yacht of her abilities/age/cost.

Thanks for the advice - I never really considered that that most of the equipment costs the same whatever the size of the yacht.

Have you not considered a Twister 28. A bit like a Sprite Caravan inside, but a great boat that will keep you safe and in my biased opinion a classic.

Steveeasy

 

[Seven Spades]

Costs are proportional to the length^3.

 

[Daydream believer]

I know at sea that a 32 obviously has a lot of benefits over a 26, speed, stowage, etc but 40% is quite a price to pay. A thousand quid isn't much to some, but to me it's a three week cycling holiday somewhere warm etc.

Once I got the 31 ft boat & sold the 26 ft, I found that we could all go for a decent holiday as a family. One can actually go somewhere rather than struggle round to the next harbour or have to wait for weather etc. Spend endless time packing & stowing gear all the time in a small space. Plus I could sail away for weeks on end on my own in comfort & cover a few hundred miles abroad. As a result I did not need to bother with other holidays. So that thousand quid is well spent on the boat & you will not miss the bike (you could take it with you!!). You first need to decide what your hobby really is, sailing or biking.

As for marinas- It is sooo much nicer just to step on the boat when I want & to walk in the office & say " launch the boat next week please". Then find it sitting at the pontoon ready. Well worth the extra cost & no hassle. Miles easier to set off on a trip without launching pesky dinghies, outboards etc in rough water, getting wet & transferring gear etc. Just stroll down the ramp, step aboard, get ready & go.

 

[V1701]

The three biggest things to consider are:

Replacement of big ticket items - engine, sails, standing rigging, bunk cushions. So make sure you get a boat that doesn't need these replacing anytime soon if at all possible.

Servicing & repairs - be prepared (or at least prepared to learn) to do it all yourself. You need deep pockets if you're going to pay so-called marine professionals to do anything for you.

Marina/mooring fees - at least a known quantity so we're back to the question of whether to buy the biggest boat you can afford or the smallest one you can be reasonably comfortable on. As others have said though go & see as many as you can just to get a flavour of what's out there.

The only other thing I'd say is be realistic about the amount of sailing you'll be able to do if you're marina based, living on the boat and working in the UK because it's not very much frankly due to getting time off work, weather, getting a liveaboard boat ready to go for a sail, etc. To be able to go where the wind and the fancy takes you you need a proper chunk of time, would be aiming to anchor whenever possible & not have an annual contract with a marina...