ASA vs RYA - Any advice?

[Bazzaman96]

Hi,

I'm looking to take the Day Skipper practical course in the next few months or so having completed the theory side of things.

At the same time, I'm going to be based in the States for a few months (LA/OC area) because of work and have been thinking about doing some sailing over there.

My query is this: what would your advice be with regards to taking an ASA practical course comparable with the RYA Day Skipper practical? If I took one, would I need to retake the Day Skipper when I'm back in the UK or could I take the next step up to Coastal Skipper in the knowledge that the ASA Coastal Cruising course is roughly comparable to the Day Skipper?

I want to make the most of my time out there and would be keen to take a practical course, but am worried that an ASA qualification would be pretty worthless in Europe. Of course, the same skills are needed wherever you are in the world, but in terms of progressing my training I'm concerned that doing an RYA theory and then an ASA practical would mess things up a bit.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
B.

 

[Solitaire]

Why don't you ring the RYA and speak to either James Stevens or Simon Jinks?

 

[Cornishman]

Sound advice from Solitaire, but do remember that Day Skipper is not a qualification to do anything, least of all progress to Coastal Skipper. While you are about it get a copy of RYA Cruising Log Book G.15 which tells you all you need to know.

 

[Bazzaman96]

Yes, I appreciate that the Day Skipper is not a 'qualification' per say, but a checkbox of competency and a marker of understanding.

As someone who is trying to learn more and develop my sailing skills, I am interested to see whether the ASA courses are the right way to do it. My first impression (but don't tell them - sssh!) is that the ASA qualifications seem much less rigorous: they are shorter, combine theory and practical in one, but claim to cover the same topics as RYA courses over here. Either the RYA courses are more in-depth, or the ASA ones aren't as thorough. At least, that's what it appears.

 

[Bazzaman96]

Incidentally, my query vis-a-vis the Coastal Skipper was simply made in that I intend, logically, to take the RYA courses in order (i.e. once I have built up the necessary hours and experience for a course, I would take it). I wanted to be very logical about it but was under the misapprehension that the Day Skipper was a prerequisite for the Coastal Skipper: now I realise that it's not, though I will still take the course in order.

 

[Cornishman]

Glad you have that sorted then. The RYA scheme is one which you can enter at any level depending on previous knowledge and experience. I was interested to hear about the American scheme. The RYA has been so successful with its training schemes that they are now being run in Australia and New Zealand as well as in Ireland.
If you do a shore based theory course when it comes to weather exercises there are separate questions dependng on which hemisphere you are in.

 

[duncanmack]

"the ASA qualifications seem much less rigorous: they are shorter, combine theory and practical in one, but claim to cover the same topics as RYA courses over here."


Come on, this is the good old US of A we're talking about, where everything is bigger, better and cheaper.
Remember, they only took 4 years to win the war (we took 6) They took 200 years to f..k the world up ( we took 3 times that) AND their polititians shoot their pals in public.
Helluva country. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[bilbobaggins]

[ QUOTE ]
<span style="color:blue"> misapprehension that the Day Skipper was a prerequisite for the Coastal Skipper </span>

[/ QUOTE ]

The foundation knowledge contained in the DaySkipper syllabus is VIP, and is built upon during the Coastal Skipper/YM Offshore Shorebased learning phase. Whether this is acquired from doing an FE or sea school course, or from distance learning and sea-time with a good tutor, is not important. What does matter is that the foundation know-how is well established and understood in context, as a basis for later techniques.

Your USA sailing will fit in well with this requirement, provided you fit that experience into and around a UK/European waters context. You may well find, for example, that much of the US boating activity is quite regimented, with the authorities directing what you do and don't, much of the time. The learning curve with anchoring, tidal heights, lights and shapes, comms, met and passage planning is likely to be rather different 'over there'. This may require some re-adjustment when you come back.

Would you consider doing one of the UK distance learning courses while away, together with your US sailing?

 

[ex-Gladys]

...Why would anyone want to do an Amateur Swimming Association qual to substirute for a Sailing one...

 

[Bazzaman96]

There is great merit in doing a swimming course, particularly if you're sailing skills are disastrous...!

The reason that the ASA courses appealed to me was because I am fairly new to the whole sailing scene and took it up last year as a fun hobby to get me out into the fresh air. My experience is very limited (about 100 hours) and I wanted to learn to sail logically and casually. For that reason, the Day Skipper theory appealed to me because it would give me a good theoretical grounding for the rest of my sailing. Anyways, I've taken that now and am just about to sit my exams.

My practical experience is still very limited, so I wanted to take a 'Day Skipper-esque' practical course so that I know the fundamentals and can take this into my future sailing. I would have taken the DS Practical in the UK but given that I'm going to be in the States for a few months I thought it would make sense to do a course over there instead.

My concern is that because I am entering with limited experience I want to gain the most from my practical course. The ASA Basic Keelboat qualification is the most basic practical qualification and covers - in my estimation - the competent crew and 1/3rd of the Day Skipper. The Coast Cruising ASA course covers the remaining 2/3rds of the Day Skipper.

Obviously IALA differs in the States but having read the ASA site's guide on the coastal cruising scheme (which is the level I would study up to): http://www.american-sailing.com/learn/standard_basic_coastal_cruising.html - my concern is that in doing an ASA course I would be 'jumping through hoops' of American procedure and technicality which may (he says nervously) not be so applicable when I come back to Europe. Then again, I may be doing some of my sailing in the States in the future, so that may not be a bad thing.

 

[Bazzaman96]

Bilbobaggins - I should have clarified my earlier point: I meant that I was under the misapprehension that I couldn't even sign-up to a Coastal Skipper course unless I have my Day Skipper certificate.

 

[Sailfree]

All experience is good experience. The ASA seems more rigerous and formal than the Day Skipper and Yachtmaster courses I have done. Looking at the link you posted I admit there are a couple of questions that am not completely 100% confident I could quickly rattle off the correct answer and I am not talking about the only USA applicable questions!

Have printed list and intend to do some revision!!

 

[peterb]

[ QUOTE ]
Looking at the link you posted I admit there are a couple of questions that am not completely 100% confident I could quickly rattle off the correct answer and I am not talking about the only USA applicable questions!

[/ QUOTE ]

I was OK until I got to Q47. It took me just under 30 seconds. Anyone who can do that lot in 15 seconds is doing real well!

 

[Cornishman]

'cos ASA is the Army Sailing association

 

[davidhand]

Hi BazB:
I am a Brit living in California and have RYA Coastal, ASA Bareboat, and US Sailing Bareboat. I am also an ASA Basic Cruising instructor.
The RYA was giving courses before any were given in the US, except that individual sailing schools had their own course material. In the early 1980's the ASA was formed to give sailing courses. About ten years later the United States Sailing Association (formerly US Yacht Racing Union) which is the official body representing the sport over here decided that it too would sponsor sailing lessons, so now there are two organizations giving qualifications here.
As a result of my casual observations it would appear that most of the larger schools have now affiliated with US Sailing and I believe that they are regarded as having the higher standard (don't say that to an ASA school though). Although the ASA I believe consulted the RYA when they set up their programme I don't think there is any current connection.
I would not like to comment on whether the US courses are better or inferior to the UK, I think it more depends on individual schools.
Sailing theory is of course the same in both countries but the rules of the road are slightly different. Once inside most harbours and bays the US Inland Rules apply which these days are similar to the International Rules. Also the buoyage system is different throuout the americas, the main difference being that the red and green buoys are reversed. It's "red on right returning" as opposed to "red to red safely home to bed", or "red to red, green to green and we go safely in between"
Anyway I wish you well in LA, if it was my choice I would go with US Sailing.
By the way LA is considered a light air area, if you want serious wind come up to San Francisco Bay it blows force five or force six most afternoons during the summer.

 

[Bazzaman96]

Thanks for all your advice. I got a reply from ASA (which was pretty unclear) saying that ASA and RYA are integrated to a small extent: if I were to fax my RYA certification to them they could provide a logbook or certification to th equivalent ASA standard. This sounds a bit confusing though - would the ICC (?) cover this?

Interestingly, I did manage to find an RYA registered school in San Fran which may solve the problem (provided I can get a week off).

I'm actually going to be staying near Marina Del Rey (which is where I lived last year), which is one of the best marinas in the States (absolutely lovely) - MDR to Avalon area can get a few decent breezes, but you're right - nothing compared to San Fran. Then again, San Fran does have some bizarre weather...!