Are POGOs the equivalent of Porsche?

[Laminar Flow]

I love comparing apples and oranges ... so here is my contribution:

Colvic Watson 32 versus Pogo 30. Light wind of 13kts from the stern quarter, both with genny only, speed 4.5kts. After 1.5 miles Watson passes Pogo in spite of the racer having a 200m lead (1.5 cable, for the nautically obsessed).

Wife said, "you should have filmed that". I said, "wasn't exactly expecting it and nobody would believe us anyway". Wife at helm, I making lunch; silly me.

 

[dunedin]

I love comparing apples and oranges ... so here is my contribution:

Colvic Watson 32 versus Pogo 30. Light wind of 13kts from the stern quarter, both with genny only, speed 4.5kts. After 1.5 miles Watson passes Pogo in spite of the racer having a 200m lead (1.5 cable, for the nautically obsessed).

Wife said, "you should have filmed that". I said, "wasn't exactly expecting it and nobody would believe us anyway". Wife at helm, I making lunch; silly me.

View attachment 119496

Looks like Pogo both
(a) forgot to put its mainsail up (the jib is quite small compared to a genoa); and
(b) forgot to move the jib cars forward, hence most of jib twisted away.
Methinks this Porsche was in “pootle“ mode

 

[cherod]

I think buying a Pogo as part of a midlife crisis would be more like buying a Panigale or R1 and then stripping parts off it to reduce weight. A Harley is more like an Island Packet I would have said - heavier than most and built for comfort more than speed.

i'd say the Panigali or R1 is the midlife thing , a harley is for when you are so old you dont care what people think ... ( i have a Ducati and a HD )

 

[cherod]

Dragonfly 32 vs Pogo 50

that thing looks so undignified !!

 

[Yealm]

that thing looks so undignified !!

Tris poo on everything else.
But I guess the advantage will narrow with foiling ?

 

[cherod]

Tris poo on everything else.
But I guess the advantage will narrow with foiling ?

i'd say ( a little like the electric car schennagins ) we , in general , are a long way away from cruising foilers .

 

[fredrussell]

Looks like Pogo both
(a) forgot to put its mainsail up (the jib is quite small compared to a genoa); and
(b) forgot to move the jib cars forward, hence most of jib twisted away.
Methinks this Porsche was in “pootle“ mode

Also, I remember reading Pogo’s come as standard with a ‘Solent’ sized jib, downwind stuff being done with a coloured sail, where they get on the plane without too much encouragement. I’m guessing LF’s Colvic has a big ol’ overlapping Genoa, so perhaps not a fair comparison.

 

[Laminar Flow]

Looks like Pogo both
(a) forgot to put its mainsail up (the jib is quite small compared to a genoa); and
(b) forgot to move the jib cars forward, hence most of jib twisted away.
Methinks this Porsche was in “pootle“ mode

I did the math on what had happened as I could not quite believe it myself.

The various comments I got were:
a.) dirty bottom on the Pogo - Not likely, as it was a boat from the Glenans and they keep their boats in very good nic.

b.) the skipper didn't know what he was doing - I seriously doubt that, as with a Glenans school boat there has to be at least one person on board who knows what they are doing. Also, going downhill on a broad reach really doesn't require a high level of skill.

c.) you mention the size of the jib. Both boats were under headsail only. The jib/genny shown is the standard Pogo 110% headsail of 26sqm. I have calculated the SA/D ratio of the Pogo with just the genny set and it is still somewhat higher than ours, again, with just the genny (130%). I based my calculations on Sailboatdata, but I suspect that for a fully kitted boat the quoted 2800 kg displacement is aspirational. Our 8.5 tons, on the other hand, are for real. Our genny has 33sqm.

d.) Jib on the Pogo not properly trimmed. Well, considering the boats purported reputation that should not have mattered and, considering the competition, they should have left us in the dust with just a dish cloth hung from the rail.

c.) we were also catching up with the two other Glenans boats that had preceded the Pogo; also under headsail only. Due to the narrow channel leaving Paimpol on a middling tide, no boat had been able to head up into the wind to raise the mains, us included. In retrospect, the Watson is clearly the faster pootler, sadly, she don't plane.

My take on the event is that our larger genny was able to compensate for the (probably) larger wetted area of our long keel as well as the resistance of a 3 bladed prop at a relative speed (just under 0.9) when form resistance (and displacement) does not yet play a major role.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

....c.) you mention the size of the jib. Both boats were under headsail only. The jib/genny shown is the standard Pogo 110% headsail of 26sqm. I have calculated the SA/D ratio of the Pogo with just the genny set and it is still somewhat higher than ours, again, with just the genny (130%). I based my calculations on Sailboatdata, but I suspect that for a fully kitted boat the quoted 2800 kg displacement is aspirational. Our 8.5 ....

I would have thought a wide flat-bottomed boat like a Pogo wouldn't like being under-canvased downwind. That's an awfully large wetted area and a large frontal area with no option of using the "tricks" boats like the Pogo do to get their performance (form stability, light displacement, planing, outstanding rig control, etc.). Basically it's just got to plough through the water without that much driving force if you don't have canvas up. A boat like yours may not leap away from the lights at the first hint of a gust but once she's moving she'll keep going for a while and ( as I'm sure you've enjoyed rubbing in on more than occasion ) they're faster than most people think.

 

[Laminar Flow]

I would have thought a wide flat-bottomed boat like a Pogo wouldn't like being under-canvased downwind. That's an awfully large wetted area and a large frontal area with no option of using the "tricks" boats like the Pogo do to get their performance (form stability, light displacement, planing, outstanding rig control, etc.). Basically it's just got to plough through the water without that much driving force if you don't have canvas up. A boat like yours may not leap away from the lights at the first hint of a gust but once she's moving she'll keep going for a while and ( as I'm sure you've enjoyed rubbing in on more than occasion ) they're faster than most people think.

To be fair, we do have the "extra" non-measured sail area of the green house going downhill ... As it were, we turned West towards Brehat as the Anse de Paimpol opened up, whereas the Pogo & co likely left for St Malo. I'm sure, once they got their main and gennaker up and into open water the shoe would have been on the other foot.