Are brand new boats a vanity??

[roblpm]

Just planning my retirement as you do!

12 years. Will be 58. Want to go sailing for a couple of years, then come back and work in a low stress job.

So a gleaming new RM1070 appeals for maybe baltic and Atlantic circuit.

But instead of spending £160k I could obviously buy a perfectly good used boat for say 80k and give the rest to my kids or use it for a huge extra £3200 a year income??!!

Obviously when it comes to it I probably won't be able to afford it anyway but I'd like to hear from those who have bought new, and those who could have but went used.

 

[Tomaret]

I'm not sure what you mean by a vanity. Very few people will know or care whether you are sailing a new, or a new to you, boat.

The economics are unlikely to stack up - ie I suspect you'll lose more in the capital value of the vessel over a couple of years than the value of the additional enjoyment you will get from having a brand new boat over a perfectly good used boat for half the price. It depends what rocks your boat. For me most of my enjoyment from sailing comes from being on the water, added to only incrementally by where and on what, so I wouldn't think of buying new, because of the diminishing (almost non existent) return I'd get in your example from the additonal 80 grand. I have advanced this arguement to two people looking seriously at buying new boats and put both of them off, which in retrospect was foolish, becasue I would have liked to chance to sail in what they were considering buying. (I have no qualms about being inconsistent with other peoples' money).

On the other hands, kids are notoriously ungrateful and if you give them 80,000 grand they'll only fret about what you are wasting the rest on, so it might be better to invest it in the boat.

 

[sailorman]

Buy used, it will more than likely have all the kit you will need, especially if it has been around the Atlantic before

 

[Concerto]

Having returned to sailing after a 21 year break, I could have bought a new boat, but decided to buy a much older boat. Part of it was I do not like the current designs of truncated bows and broad transoms. Boats of today are engineered for a lighter displacement, which also means a less sea kindly motion, even if they go faster through the water (generally). Too many boats seem to be designed from the interior outward and intended for use in sunny climates only.

If you buy an older boat and spend a fortune on renovations to make it like new, you will still spend less than a new boat - especially if you can do some of the work yourself. There was a case of someone buying the worst condition large Swan he could find and then shipping it back to Sweden for major renovations. He eventually spent only half the cost of a new boat on a boat that looked like new.

If you are thinking of 12 years down the line, then boats that are new today will be good secondhand buys then. In the final mix only you can decide what is best for you, but to maximise your money, then secondhand is the route to go.

 

[roblpm]

I'm not sure what you mean by a vanity. Very few people will know or care whether you are sailing a new, or a new to you, boat.

The economics are unlikely to stack up - ie I suspect you'll lose more in the capital value of the vessel over a couple of years than the value of the additional enjoyment you will get from having a brand new boat over a perfectly good used boat for half the price. It depends what rocks your boat. For me most of my enjoyment from sailing comes from being on the water, added to only incrementally by where and on what, so I wouldn't think of buying new, because of the diminishing (almost non existent) return I'd get in your example from the additonal 80 grand. I have advanced this arguement to two people looking seriously at buying new boats and put both of them off, which in retrospect was foolish, becasue I would have liked to chance to sail in what they were considering buying. (I have no qualms about being inconsistent with other peoples' money).

On the other hands, kids are notoriously ungrateful and if you give them 80,000 grand they'll only fret about what you are wasting the rest on, so it might be better to invest it in the boat.

By vanity I really mean proving to myself that I am successful by splashing the cash about!!

 

[Tomaret]

By vanity I really mean proving to myself that I am successful by splashing the cash about!!

In that case, no, its not vanity. Look upon it as keeping the global boat building industry alive - its almost charitable, but don't try to gift aid it. You splash your cash on a new boat and eventually it will move down the value chain to skinflints like me.

 

[Skylark]

By vanity I really mean proving to myself that I am successful by splashing the cash about!!

I find this quite a ridiculous proposition, personally.

As I approach my retirement, I'm well beyond the insecurity stage of needing to prove something, to myself or to others.

I wanted something slightly bigger than my 36 footer but didn't find anything to my taste and in clean, cared-for condition. I then started thinking about new sails, new rigging, new engine, new galley, new heads, new electronics and so on.

Not a question of economics. Why should it be. I wanted one so I bought one. Simple, really.

 

[Sandy]

Are brand new boats a vanity?

Non, as they say in France.

They are a series of decisions taken by the owner that leads them to commission the building of a new boat.

 

[roblpm]

I find this quite a ridiculous proposition, personally.

As I approach my retirement, I'm well beyond the insecurity stage of needing to prove something, to myself or to others.

I wanted something slightly bigger than my 36 footer but didn't find anything to my taste and in clean, cared-for condition. I then started thinking about new sails, new rigging, new engine, new galley, new heads, new electronics and so on.

Not a question of economics. Why should it be. I wanted one so I bought one. Simple, really.

Not ridiculous if u are as insecure as me!!

 

[Alan ashore]

Vanity? I don't see it. Extravagance? probably. Indulgence? certainly by my definition of that word.

I was once in a position to buy a new boat and I did. I very much doubt that I will ever be again.
I can tell you that the personal impact of commissioning and owning a new boat included a significant quantum of joy that was all about it being new, as well of course as some unique frustrations within the panoply of emotion that is boat ownership.

Would I do it again "if I had my time again". Certainly, though I'd do a lot differently and hopefully protect myself better from the consequence of some fundamental failings by the builder.......

Good luck, and do post again in 12 years time to tell us what you decide

A.

 

[Garold]

Over the years, I believe that I've bought 4 brand new boats, and a few second hand ones.

New boats have suited our needs for low maintenance boating. And financially, though we have suffered some depreciation, we had much lower running costs than on the second hand ones, so not as costly as one would think. There's often good deals to be made on new products with (if you want to use it) manufacturer-supported finance too.

The whole vanity notion wasn't really a factor for us. But if you are looking for some sort of accusation of shallowness/naivety sticking to those that buy new boats, you could certainly accuse us of being taken in by the excellent marketing of new products at boat shows etc. And the brochure pictures always look great too - never any pictures of a rain sodden yachtie looking for the showers on Weymouth town quay.

Anyway, each to their own.

Like many, I am currently surprised at the multitude of bargain boats available in the Med if priced in euros but paying in £. That would seem like the way to go if one were buying a boat right now.

And maybe better to retire a couple of years early with any savings made rather than further cushion the offsprings.

Garold

 

[pvb]

This time last year, I sold my much-loved Hallberg-Rassy, after 19 years of ownership. The boat was 24 years old and, frankly, I was tired of the ongoing maintenance and repair work. As I'm not getting any younger, and have a decreasing appetite for maintenance and repairs, I decided to buy a brand new AWB instead. I specified it with lots of bells and whistles, and it's an absolute delight. It sails very nicely, the sail handling is almost effortless, the steering light and precise. The electronics are brilliant. The fit and finish of everything is exemplary (as you'd expect from a factory-made product). It is warm and comfortable. And it's squeaky clean everywhere. Best of all, I can just use it for a few years without worrying about repairs.

Economically, a new boat costs more, but there's the trade-off of virtually assured problem-free use for a few years. You get to specify exactly the equipment you want. You get the latest model (which may well be important in resale value terms in 5-7 years time). This is the 6th new boat I've bought, and it's by far the nicest.

 

[Tomaret]

Best of all, I can just use it for a few years without worrying about repairs.

But if I was to have a maintenance free boat I'd have no excuse to spend all those winter weekends fettling and I wonder what other plans would be laid for me.

More seriously, which AWB did you buy that you find far nicer than the HR (or were you comparing your current boat to the other 5 you bought new)?

Mark

 

[pvb]

But if I was to have a maintenance free boat I'd have no excuse to spend all those winter weekends fettling and I wonder what other plans would be laid for me.

More seriously, which AWB did you buy that you find far nicer than the HR (or were you comparing your current boat to the other 5 you bought new)?

I bought a Bavaria Cruiser 37, somewhat like this...

 

[Tomaret]

And you are sure you don't miss wondering where the leak is coming from (whether it's oil or water), why one cabin light won't work, whether the headlining in the heads will stay up for one more season, or why the engine is producing so much blue/white black smoke? With my 28 year old MAB I assumed that these questions were an integral part of sailing.

Whatever your answer to the above, your new yacht certainly looks good!

 

[pvb]

And you are sure you don't miss wondering where the leak is coming from (whether it's oil or water), why one cabin light won't work, whether the headlining in the heads will stay up for one more season, or why the engine is producing so much blue/white black smoke? With my 28 year old MAB I assumed that these questions were an integral part of sailing.

Whatever your answer to the above, your new yacht certainly looks good!

Don't miss any of those! (Or wondering how much longer the teak deck would last!)

 

[niccapotamus]

i have always bought s/h as we don't have spare funds to buy new. I do know someone who has bought 4 new boats and each time has had significant teething issues which seem to increase with the complexity and cost of the boat. The last one cost £500K and had to have a shed-load of remedial work carried out at his expense as the builder went bust.

So just from that viewpoint I personally would be looking for a clean tidy newish s/h boat where the teething issues have been resolved and there are many fine examples around if budget isn't an issue

I think the OP is using the word vanity to cover off the reasons why anyone buys a sparkling new "thing" with custom ordered bolt on goodies rather than a used but perhaps "sorted" and much cheaper alternative. And vanity isn't a bad word - otherwise all the advertisers would be trying to sell the practical benefits and not selling "a dream" or "lifestyle"

IMHO etc

 

[Tomaret]

Don't miss any of those! (Or wondering how much longer the teak deck would last!)

Teak deck??? I think my pencil rack might be teak, but if it is that's the limit of anything natural on my boat! Everything else has been subject to one manufacturing process or another. No wonder you had had enough of maintenance.

 

[johnalison]

My HR was new when we bought it in 2000 and so is now much like a second-hand boat. I don't see the maintenance now as being very different to what it was when new. Over the years there have been the usual replacements such as sails, saildrive gaiter and cockpit tent/sprayhood and the Webasto needed attention (again) this year, but most of the work is cleaning, polishing and antifouling, and engine service which I mostly delegate these days. The main problems with second-hand boats that my friends have had have been to do with stripping out useless gear, refurbishing the hull and cabin and often major work or replacement of the engine. I don't think they came badly out of their deals and mostly now have good boats, but there is an element of gamble in dealing with something as complex as a boat.

 

[pvb]

My HR was new when we bought it in 2000 and so is now much like a second-hand boat. I don't see the maintenance now as being very different to what it was when new.

I think maintenance issues escalated in the last 5 years with my HR. Major teak deck renovation. Re-sprayed the blue hull stripes with Awlgrip. New standing rigging. New sprayhood. New lifelines. New Genoa. New calorifier. Instrument repairs. New engine mounts and brackets. New oil cooler. Several new through-hulls and seacocks. Holding tank leak. New fuel tank sender. New liferaft. New Eberspacher exhaust. Plus lots of things I can't remember. I just felt it was time to move on.