Are all outboards cr@p?

[Steve_Bentley]

Problems with outboards seem to be one of the most popular topics at the various boaty sites I look at, both sides of the pond. I thought I'd add to long list of whinges.

If someone had a problem with a motor that was obsolete (like a spare V**** 25hp from the '70's I have!), never serviced and forgotten about for 10 years I wouldn't be surprised but I present my case why I think they're generally rubbish:

1. They're rediculously overpriced new considering the same design might last a decade or more with minor tweaks and judging by the problems they can't be machined particularly well.
2. The smaller ones seem to be designed to get blocked up with salt and hence need replacing.
3. They can be sooo fussy to start and run. I've had cars in the past you could run for 5 years without anything more than an oil change that would start 'on the button'. O/b's by contrast have to have the right oil mix, fuel that's not too old, use the right choke/throttle combination that sometimes floods the thing, keep the plugs/fuel filter/carb spotless etc. Even my old Mini used to start first time every time and the engine was designed in the 50's!!
4. They corrode. Why design something that spends sometimes almost all its' life in the water and the paint flakes and the alloy corrodes. Doh.
5. They're often designed with no handle to speak of, and sometimes you mustn't carry it by the handle as the angle is all wrong for the internals getting flooded etc.

Summary: My 10 yr old Mariner 30 (actually a rebadged Yamaha) sums it up nicely. It cost a fortune second hand. It's done less than 10 hours after a full recon (new piston rings etc) by a reputable specialist. Tried it for the first time on Saturday on last year's fuel and it started/ran no probs. Sunday get everyone in the 'flaty with 10 litres of fresh fuel and would it start over the next hour of trying (by hand)? Well, yes it did maybe 4 times but ran for less than a minute (fuel not sucking up from the tank?). I probably flooded it a few times but cleaning the plugs and a few pulls usually solves that. Friends not impressed, I'm not impressed, I have some impressive blisters from the starter handle and I'm left bleedin knackered (it's bl**dy heavy, with no handles!).

Why do you hear about cars that have sat in barns for twenty years and start first time on a fresh battery, but never with outboards? Next year I was planning on getting a sportsboat with electric start o/b but now I'm having second thoughts.

Does anyone have anything kind to say about the things (or even recommend a replacement)?

Yours cream-crackeredly, Steve from Hove.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[SlowlyButSurely]

The answer is almost all. They're all crap except for the Seagull.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[andyball]

I've had an '88 suzuki 8hp 2-stroke : reliable starter,but prone to cutting out at low speeds, even after full rebuild. Got fed-up with it & laid out £££ on new engine.

2000 yamaha 4hp 4-stroke : awkward to start at times(5 pulls,Ooooer!), but v.reliable/economical.

2001 yam 8hp 4-stroke : wonderfully quiet/reliable

2001 suzuki 115hp 4-stroke : superb,no trouble at all.checked valve clearances after 250hrs-all perfect, no need to adjust

Oh & in between we had a 1988 seagull-the flywheel came apart while motoring, which made it rattle a bit(!) at tickover, but marvellously made it smooth/quiet like a japanese engine at higher speeds.


Soooo.... newish 4-strokes are nicer,imo. Always,always have a spare (new) plug for a 2-stroke & ideally drain the carb' after running. & flush any o/b with fresh water every time if possible.

Had a lot of exp. with dodgy 2-stroke engines over years of repairing bikes for a living.......usually the awfully unreliable ones had knackered old plugs/caps or water/dirt in the fuel.

I agree they're overpriced & despite the "tough paint system" it still flakes off very easily. & the £75 + vat + 2-plugs + fuel filter + oil +something else quoted by local yamaha agent (Ron Hale) for 10hour(!) service on yam 8hp made me decide to stuff the warranty & do own servicing (took 45mins for 10hr service-actually yam only suggest inspecting plugs/filter at 10hr)

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[mainshiptom]

I don’t know?

I has a seagull for about ten years, yes always works but noisy not much power, takes part of your hand with it,

My second hand mariner 4hp starts every time and very economical too

My Tohtsu 70hp which is quite old and takes a bit of effort to start but delivers a lot of power speed and fun maybe I would not rely on it as I would if it was diesel engine but not bad for a petrol engine.

All in all they are not that based but need more TLC a bit like samba.

Tom

P.s. anyone has a diesel outboard for sale?



<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[DavidJ]

I once had a Seagull, made a much better auxiliary anchor than it did an outboard motor.
Like Oldgit my Marina 4hp (Tomatsu or whatever is under the badge) starts everytime.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[dickh]

Re: Are all outboards cr@p? - Seagulls?

The problem with the Seagull is that it was designed in the 40's/50's and at the time was the only small outboard available at a reasonable price. BUT they never quite kept up with technology, look at what happened to Brtish bikes when the Japanese arrived, I can remember everyone laughing at them and saying they would never last, BUT they were reliable, always started and they sold like hot cakes.
Now if seagull had had a rebadged japanese engine they would probably still be making motors. I had seagulls for several years, but got so fed up with the unreliable starting, leaking carbs in the car boot even after running the carb dry, noisy, always playing with it to make it more reliable.
So when an unused Honda 2hp came available at a very attractive price I grabbed it and never looked back. It never leaks in the boot, reliable, quiet, miserly on fuel, no mixing of 2 stroke mixture and usually starts 2nd or 3rd pull.
I sold the Seagull after one advert, the guy didn't even want to see it running even though I had a tank set up - have you seen the price they fetch on ebay?
Would I go back to a Seagull? - NO!

<hr width=100% size=1>dickh
I'd rather be sailing... /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[Dave_Snelson]

No, not really. Outboards seem to attract some comments that really should be aimed at the owner, not the engine (no offense matey!).

OB's work in the harshest of environments. They run in salt, they breath salt air directly and without a filter. They are left for protracted periods of time without being garaged. They are made to use old fuel. They get infrequent servicing, if they are lucky. They get thrashed, abused, dowsed, run in to sand, used by people that have little or no experience, and then.....

..you expect them to work.

It actually doen't take a great deal of effort to ensure reliability and longevity. People should try the following.

Always use an in-line separator / filter, to filter fuel.
Use fresh fuel.
Use good quality oil, from a known quality brand.
Service the motor once a season, including the leg.
Always run the motor at the end of the season with a good "fogging oil".
Change the water pump every 3rd season (or sooner with heavy use).
Use good spark pugs (I recommend NGK).
Wash your engine down on the exterior thoughly with a hose after *every* use.
Flush your engine's cooling system with a hose after *every* use
Keep the power-head interior clean and sprayed with WD40 frequently.
*Make all the above a religous excersise*.

There are only two things that stop a good outboard - sparks & fuel.

All IMHO, of course. Cheers.


<hr width=100% size=1>Madoc Yacht Club
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk>http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk</A>

 

[jacksong]

Well I'd have to jump in in defence on my lovely Yamaha F100B. It is only in its second season but it runs like a dream. In making the case for the defence I'd have to respond to your points thusly ...

1. I saved over 2K buying from an online grey importer rather than direct from the UK market [a local dealer told me he would have made a loss had he sold me the engine at the price I bought it for]

3. Starts like a charm every time except when I'd left the lights on and run the battery flat and I had to pull start it. No choke, no throttle, just turn the key and it bursts into life. Dunno about oil mixes as it is a Four-stroke and the one it replaced was a VRO unit that worked out its own oil ratios.

4. Can't do much about this, seawater is a bugger for electrolytic corrosion. Just gotta keep an eye on that sacrifical anode.

5. Wouldn't want to even try and carry mine, at 160 odd kilos it's not really an option

as to point 2 - I do have a little 5hp Force for the tender and thats been in repair for months just waiting ona new impellor because apparently it's a hard part to find so I'd probably have to agree with you on the small engine front.

I'd recommend the same engine to anyone looking for a nice big lump for a sportsboat. It's quiet and dead fuel efficient to boot. I'd just recommend picking it up from whereever you buy it in something bigger than a modeo hatchback - we had lots of fun trying to fit it in the back [although e managed it in the end]

J

<hr width=100% size=1>--
I am not a Frog, I am a free Womble

 

[jfm]

I agree most are crap. The old yams (which is what your mariner is) were junk. Many of today's small ones are also rubbish they have all the symptoms you mention.

But some of the modern big ones are totally fab, totally reliable. Likewise, the merc in line 6 designed 1963 and withdrawn around 1990 was totally fab. I bort one of these on 27.1.1981 and sold it 2 years ago. During 20 years it ran in saltwater and never had a service apart from impeller, sparkplugs and wd40 spray. It never ever went to a dealer for service work (was in southern ireland, where there are no competent fixers). It never had new power trim hydraulic seals, I never adjusted the carbs, it always started first go even after sitting 6months, ran like a sewing machine till I sold it. Brilliant.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Dave_Snelson]

Darth Vader

Love your story of the big Merc streight 6, I had one also - same experience. I loved that engine, so much so, it was referred to by its very own nickname - Darth. As in Darth Vader. Next time you look at the front engine cowl of a streight 6 Merc, you'll see what I mean

<hr width=100% size=1>Madoc Yacht Club
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk>http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk</A>

 

[jfm]

Re: Darth Vader

I know what you mean by the front engine cowl (the whole cowl thing was a bit of a jigsaw, wasn't it?). Mine was a 1981, the last year with the rounded corner front cowls - the original 1960s shape but with modern decals and black paint rather than the chrome-all-over. From the 1982 onwards they had the square cornered front cowls which looked more darth ish.

Fabulous motor, esp when buzzing at 4500rpm with zero vibration.

I think I was mad to sell it, had it 20yrs since brand new, in years to come I will regret not just keeping it polished in the garage!

Oops this is quite an anorakky post

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[BarryH]

Nail and head! Keep an engine (most, anyway) serviced and maintained and it will return stirling service.
I've had quiet a few outboards and never really had any probs with them apart from replacing worn parts. Owners are the biggest fault an engine will have.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Canboria]

Anything that is not looked after will quickly give you trouble, I did for many years race outboards, (offshore ski racing) Mercury 200, 2.4 and a Yamaha PROV 200, they never let me down always started first time, but then I looked after them, others at the time had lots of trouble simply because of the mentality it must be OK because it was at the last race, not true.

I always without fail flushed the engine in fresh water, sprayed the power head with a WD40 type spray, changed the gear box oil on a regular basis, checked the gear box for water after each race, always ran with synthetic gear box oil and synthetic oil in the fuel, always mixed the petrol with octane booster, we ran the Yamaha at over 7000 RPM during an hour long race, never missed a beat.

The engine was thoroughly checked after each race every nut and bolt was checked, one of the finest outboards that I have raced, a couple of hours work each week paid dividends.



<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Dave_Snelson]

Re: Darth Vader

Oh yes, the very sound of it!! I would push the throttle wide and it would shove my boat out of the water and when it got beyond a certain revs(never had a rev counter!) the carburettor roar would abate, leaving a lovely high pitch howl....

My new Suzuki 100 is a fab motor but its all quiet and neatly packaged and all that ergo stuff. Still, its a 2-stroke, so it still smells nice!

A good engine isn't just a collection of pistons, rods, crank etc, its an entity and takes on its own persona.

Yes, very geeky posts

<hr width=100% size=1>Madoc Yacht Club
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk>http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk</A>

 

[ccscott49]

I have a 30 hp, yamaha, it gets serviced once a year, starts first pull every time and is 7 years old, whats wrong with that? Mind you it does get used every day in the summer.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[johnstop]

I am new to outboards and previoulsy had little knowledge of two stroke engines.
I have a Force 150 bhp which starts first time and a johnson 4 hp which starts 3 rd pull.Being two strokes they are designed I believe too run at fairly high revs so tootling along is not what there about. I have also learned that people seem fairly relaxed about how accurate they mix their fuel. I use a can where I get 20 litres in and use a measuring jug too add the oil. I make sure my filters are checked/cleaned before each journey and I run the fuel out of the carbs at the end finishing off with the mufflers and fresh water. If I am being too fussy then ok but my engine runs beautifully.Did 50 miles on sunday around the wirral n.wales coast and never missed a beat.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[whisper]

Re: Are all outboards cr@p? - Seagulls?

Are you sure it's quiet ? All the write ups say it's noisier than similar/slightly larger sized 2 strokes. One has just gone past me and it did sound very loud. Still it is bound to be quieter than a Seagull !

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[jfm]

You're not being too fussy. Except one thing (and this IS fussy). If you have multiple carbs and you run the fuel out till motor dies, then often one carb bowl will run out of fuel before the other(s). Then the cylinders/bearings that that carb feeds will have no lube oil for the last few revs. Therefore, it is better to turn it off at the key just as you begin to feel the engine die. Dont let it finally cough and splutter till it stops

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[dangcharios]

Nine times out of ten starting probs are the fault of the opperator.

Alan

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[chippie]

Re: Are all outboards cr@p? - Seagulls?

The seagull I had years ago was very quiet,---it wouldnt start.
I use an old 6hp evinrude ; amazingly reliable, always starts on the third pull.

<hr width=100% size=1>