ARC

[xcw]

I have just read that a second ARC yacht has been abandoned at sea due to steering failure ( a British crewed Hanse 588).
What happens to these yachts? Are they just left to drift until they eventually sink or is some form of salvage attempted?

 

[V1701]

This...

 

[jdc]

What they do is vastly inflate our insurance premiums. Not trying to troll here, but I think the ethos of the ARC engenders the antithesis of good seamanship and self-reliance and I lament its creation.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

It doesn't make for pleasant reading.

World Cruising Club

 

[capnsensible]

What they do is vastly inflate our insurance premiums. Not trying to troll here, but I think the ethos of the ARC engenders the antithesis of good seamanship and self-reliance and I lament its creation.

Interesting viewpoint.

I've sailed across a number of times but not in the Arc. As do hundreds every year. With a fair share of problems. But I'm not sure how a pro run rally that carries out pre start inspections, safety briefs and on site engineers to solve problems, plus a manned 24 7 race control to deal with incidents lacks good seamanship?

If anything, it's safer than going on your jack.

 

[jdc]

My lament is that by the nature of having 'race' control, and loads of other boats around, when things go wrong (rather frequently steering I think) the 'sensible' decision is to abandon whereas when alone and unsupported you'd just have to fix it somehow. I've done vastly fewer ocean crossings than you, but for all we have been on our own and had to just fix whatever happened. And my point about insurance premiums stands.

 

[dunedin]

What they do is vastly inflate our insurance premiums. Not trying to troll here, but I think the ethos of the ARC engenders the antithesis of good seamanship and self-reliance and I lament its creation.

Nonsense. Have you actually been on one of the ARC events?

One thing it does do though is increase the number of boats making the crossing, and the more boats that cross the more incidents there will be.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Interesting viewpoint.

I've sailed across a number of times but not in the Arc. As do hundreds every year. With a fair share of problems. But I'm not sure how a pro run rally that carries out pre start inspections, safety briefs and on site engineers to solve problems, plus a manned 24 7 race control to deal with incidents lacks good seamanship?

If anything, it's safer than going on your jack.

I would agree the safety umbrella offered by the organisation and the multiple entrants giving support makes it a very safe way to cross if you are that way inclined.
What is more interesting at least to me is how a 50 foot plus half million pound yacht could have such gear failure in less than exceptional or even difficult conditions.

 

[dunedin]

My lament is that by the nature of having 'race' control, and loads of other boats around, when things go wrong (rather frequently steering I think) the 'sensible' decision is to abandon whereas when alone and unsupported you'd just have to fix it somehow. I've done vastly fewer ocean crossings than you, but for all we have been on our own and had to just fix whatever happened. And my point about insurance premiums stands.

Again I don’t think that stacks up. On the ARC I did, there were TWO independent non-ARC boats that were assisted by ARC boats, and one escorted for a week by an ARC boat until reached safety. They were lucky that the excellent commas network of the ARC could arrange to divert boats to their assistance.

 

[jdc]

...One thing it does do though is increase the number of boats making the crossing, and the more boats that cross the more incidents there will be.

That's a fair point - in fact I grumble about sampling bias and here I am in danger off succumbing to it myself! Mea Culpa.

But can one gather the stats? Like boat for like (how to judge? Age and LOA maybe?) are ARC boats more frequently abandoned when adjusted for numbers making the passage? As a start:
How many boats cross east to west every year in the ARC?
How many cross east to west every year not in the ARC?
How many in each category are abandoned?

I'm pretty confident that many more cross not in the ARC as there are many boats crossing in January through April, or stopping in Cape Verde or going south to Brazil for instance which are not ARC entrants.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

That's a fair point - in fact I grumble about sampling bias and here I am in danger off succumbing to it myself! Mea Culpa.

But can one gather the stats? Like boat for like (how to judge? Age and LOA maybe?) are ARC boats more frequently abandoned when adjusted for numbers making the passage? As a start:
How many boats cross east to west every year in the ARC?
How many cross east to west every year not in the ARC?
How many in each category are abandoned?

I'm pretty confident that many more cross not in the ARC as there are many boats crossing in January through April, or stopping in Cape Verde or going south to Brazil for instance which are not ARC entrants.

Maybe there is a greater number of less experienced, less confidant people that choose to cross in the ARC for obvious reasons thus when things go wrong they seem to do so in a big way.

 

[capnsensible]

I would agree the safety umbrella offered by the organisation and the multiple entrants giving support makes it a very safe way to cross if you are that way inclined.
What is more interesting at least to me is how a 50 foot plus half million pound yacht could have such gear failure in less than exceptional or even difficult conditions.

Crap happens........

Interestingly I've had to deal with steering problems on a slightly smaller Hanse. Not normally thought about on that marque. Fortunate,y it mostly resulting in hand steering for a few days on a tootle around the Canwry Islands. Not in mid Atlantic, f7 with associated seas.

Happy it wasn't me and happy the crew are safe.

 

[capnsensible]

I posted a month or two back about the numbers this year. Biggest ever seen in our small island. Must be in the high hundreds, if not thousands, pent up pressure from covid finding a release, maybe.

There is a very busy anchorage outside our marina. Lots of arrivals and departures.stacks going to the Windies at some stage. I'm sure their will be more drama....that doesn't get reported without world cruising club organisation giving press releases.

So anyway, after 20 something years of wcc helping people to live the dream, I reckon they got it sorted.

But everyone's first trans Atlantic will not be as good as thir twelfth.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Crap happens........

Interestingly I've had to deal with steering problems on a slightly smaller Hanse. Not normally thought about on that marque. Fortunate,y it mostly resulting in hand steering for a few days on a tootle around the Canwry Islands. Not in mid Atlantic, f7 with associated seas.

Happy it wasn't me and happy the crew are safe.

Indeed we would all be happy that it wasn't us and that the crew are safe but it doesn't explain why they had the problem and why it escalated as it did and why they were unable to cope with it. See post #11

 

[Laser310]

What they do is vastly inflate our insurance premiums. Not trying to troll here, but I think the ethos of the ARC engenders the antithesis of good seamanship and self-reliance and I lament its creation.

i think that's a bit strong...

ARC is not "the antithesis of good seamanship"

and i doubt they loose enough boats to move our insurance rates much - but yes, two in one crossing is a lot.

I would guess many more boats are lost in marina fires than through abandonment. And what about the hundreds of boats destroyed by a single hurricane in the caribbean?

 

[doug748]

I would agree the safety umbrella offered by the organisation and the multiple entrants giving support makes it a very safe way to cross if you are that way inclined.
What is more interesting at least to me is how a 50 foot plus half million pound yacht could have such gear failure in less than exceptional or even difficult conditions.

Yes, given the average size of ARC boat would be around 50ft, I would think that most expect to get to the other side. Twin skegless rudders always looked a dodgy proposition for long distance cruising.

.

 

[kof]

My lament is that by the nature of having 'race' control, and loads of other boats around, when things go wrong (rather frequently steering I think) the 'sensible' decision is to abandon whereas when alone and unsupported you'd just have to fix it somehow. I've done vastly fewer ocean crossings than you, but for all we have been on our own and had to just fix whatever happened. And my point about insurance premiums stands.

So what was the alternative to abandoning the boat in this case ? Far as I know, the owner was dead, the skipper injured and that left his son (dont know what age) to get the boat to safe harbour.

 

[capnsensible]

Indeed we would all be happy that it wasn't us and that the crew are safe but it doesn't explain why they had the problem and why it escalated as it did and why they were unable to cope with it. See post #11

It broke.

 

[DJE]

How one crew coped with steering failure.

 

[capnsensible]

So what was the alternative to abandoning the boat in this case ? Far as I know, the owner was dead, the skipper injured and that left his son (dont know what age) to get the boat to safe harbour.

I think that might have been the earlier incident on a French yacht.

On this one, the twin wheel steering system failed. Bit by bit. When screws or bolts shear, the quadrant fails and bits of the structure that holds the rudder post break, that's virtually impossible to fix with a f7 up the chuff and 4m waves.

Personally I'd be looking at some kind of jury rig and accept Christmas and membe even new year at sea. But the skipper involved chose an option to secure the safety of his crew above saving the yacht. Good call. And not a single one of us knows why the steering failed and what repairs he tried.....