Aquamaps as alternative to Navionics?

I decided to have a look at the Aquamaps on line chart viewer.

Very disappointed. It fails to show at least 2 partly submerged rocks in my sailing area that all the other charts show. So if the charts that you buy are the same, they are about as useless as a chocolate tea pot and I could not trust them.
 
One “requirement” that I don’t understand is needing “a browser based chart viewer with routes”.

If you have a decent app then why not use that rather than go through a browser? Confused.

On a separate point, the one thing I prefer raster charts over Navionics is for spotting isolated rocks in otherwise deep water. Most raster charts are like Navionics, just a tiny cross which may not be easily visible, especially in sunlight. Generally more visible on a rather chart, where the cartographer makes more visible. But not a reason to avoid Navionics et al - rather why I tend to use BOTH vector and raster charts simultaneously in tricky waters.
 
dunedin said:
If you have a decent app then why not use that rather than go through a browser? Confused.
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My laptop has a much larger screen, particularly if connected to an external display. Phone screens are like using a CRT monitor from the 90s; yes the pixel density is greater, which gives a better experience, but even so it's the difference between a playing card and a sheet of A4.

Regarding isolated dangers, the standard on ECDIS is to call them out with a distinctive mark. By default it only does that for rocks outside the Safety Contour, as shown here. Enabling it for all depths can lead to clutter. (I mention this as an illustration of what is possible with vector, and what might even be considered best practice.)
1750715957159.png
 
ProDave said:
I decided to have a look at the Aquamaps on line chart viewer.

Very disappointed. It fails to show at least 2 partly submerged rocks in my sailing area that all the other charts show. So if the charts that you buy are the same, they are about as useless as a chocolate tea pot and I could not trust them.
Click to expand...
Any chance you have coordinates for some of those? (I like finding such cases as they are useful for comparing between different chart products.)
 
dunedin said:
One “requirement” that I don’t understand is needing “a browser based chart viewer with routes”.

If you have a decent app then why not use that rather than go through a browser? Confused.

On a separate point, the one thing I prefer raster charts over Navionics is for spotting isolated rocks in otherwise deep water. Most raster charts are like Navionics, just a tiny cross which may not be easily visible, especially in sunlight. Generally more visible on a rather chart, where the cartographer makes more visible. But not a reason to avoid Navionics et al - rather why I tend to use BOTH vector and raster charts simultaneously in tricky waters.
Click to expand...

My method was to use a desktop pc or laptop to plan out routes that then get transferred to the Android devices. Bigger screen. More control, with keyboard and other tabs open for various bits of research. Many a nice evening would be spent in some club bar, musing over the decisions of the next day. All that stopped when Garmin prevented the web app from showing routes. I have just bought a Lenovo P12 tablet, which I am v happy with, and still use my Lenovo P11 which has been a reliable friend. And there is the phone of course. If Garmin limited to 5 devices instead of 2, and allowed me as paying customer to view my routes on the web app, I would be a very happy advocate.
 
ProDave said:
Our local rock, with coordinates shown
Click to expand...
Thank you!

Looks like Aqua Map is using a non-standard presentation that is much more easily missed (I don't like that!), while the other chart is using the standard "rocky ledges or coral reef" symbology. They both have it coded as "rocks, covers and uncovers" in the background, but your other chart displays the name (which is helpful if someone wants to keep an eye out for Craig an Roan rocks).
 
I am sailing in the Ionian (Greece) and my Navionics has expired.
To buy Navionics for another year - Ionian and Adriatic is £49.99. Talks to my Raymarine plotter
Aquamap for Greece is €79.99/year I cannot check if the reef off Skopolos is shown as when I zoom in on the chart viewer, it says "copyrighted area"
Savvy Navvy with offline charts is £95/year This does show the reef off Skopolos
I have OpenCPN. I have downloaded charts from Open SeaMap and they do not show a reef off Skopolos. So unusable
Wavveboating has no charts for the Ionian
Just come acress NV Charts. The reef off skopolos is shown albeit not as clearly as I would like. £43 for a year
SeaPilot does not allow me to see the charts online before purchasing
iNavX is only on Apple devices
Memorymaps do not include Greece

Have I missed any other options?

TudorSailor
 
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tudorsailor said:
I have downloaded charts from Open SeaMap and they do not show a reef off Skopolos.
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So far as I'm aware OpenSeaMap has almost zero bathymetric data, only information about buoys, traffic lanes, etc. Personally I think it's dangerously misleading for them to use the term "charts".

My thinking is that Navionics would be the winner here both on price and chart coverage. I suspect Aqua Map, O-charts for OpenCPN, and possibly Savvy Navvy* are using the same source data. You might also check C-Map just to be thorough.

* No experience here, it seems its target audience is people who want auto-routing features).
 
Was updating my Garmin plotter on the lower helm today, getting ready for a 3 day/100nm trip on Monday, Navionics West Germany and Benelux charts updated but the UK charts required a new subscription of £129 to update - yeah, I'll stick with Waterkaarten App for my inland sailing. Waterkaarten also does UK inland waterways and has a PC app which links to the apps on either Android or iphone/pad with up to 3 devices, I use that at home on the PC to plot routes for our tips on the inland waterways of Europe.
I will be updating the Simrad plotter tomorrow, it can use either C-Map or Navionics and it has Benelux Navionics installed on it.

As a very long time Memory Map user, I used it for my work in remote areas of the UK, and the EU, I have the UK charts on my laptop for that.
 
requiem said:
So far as I'm aware OpenSeaMap has almost zero bathymetric data, only information about buoys, traffic lanes, etc. Personally I think it's dangerously misleading for them to use the term "charts".

My thinking is that Navionics would be the winner here both on price and chart coverage. I suspect Aqua Map, O-charts for OpenCPN, and possibly Savvy Navvy* are using the same source data. You might also check C-Map just to be thorough.

* No experience here, it seems its target audience is people who want auto-routing features).
Click to expand...

Aqua Map and Savvy Navy probably do not use the same data set, out at least they don't implement the same layers. Looking at the Aqua Map chart selector, Loch Spelve, Aqua Maps shows the outlines of the fish farms, mussel farms in this case, low lying buoys with ropes between which are a significant hazard to surface navigation. All fish farms are missing on Savvy Navy when I last checked. It was also reported on this forum that over head power lines and heights above HAT are also missing down at the south coast. This has been queried with Savvy Navy and apparently they have not incorporated a layer of data which includes these man made features. They are aware this. What this thread demonstrates is that we have no idea how reliable these leisure systems are for navigating.

It is worth stating that both Savvy Navvy and Aqua Maps state they use UKHO data for their marine charts.

Navionics does show the fish farm outlines. Until we get ENC in the UK that complies with a HO standard, then I think all UK sailors who want leisure industry digital solution and costs, should also use a UKHO raster chart product to verify other digital charts. Of course, UKHO raster charts can also be wrong. I spend a lot of time moving rocks and adding in revised depth contours on my paper charts every winter as commercial surveys for all sorts of stuff feeds through to NTM.
 
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dunedin said:
One “requirement” that I don’t understand is needing “a browser based chart viewer with routes”.
Click to expand...

Because not a few of us (presumably) have large monitors which were (pre-enshitification) excellent for we subscribers to pull up large chart areas on PCs, plan routes and then sync those routes to the plotters / tablets / phones that we use at sea. That was part of why I paid for Navionics.

The enshitification also strikes me as Navionics / Garmin killing off what was (presumably) for them cheap and effective marketing as:

- I suspect there are not a few folk who fund their boating by doing things that involve sitting in front of large computer screens for a significant part of the day. The chart viewer functionality created 'stickyness' for those users, in the office (as some pleasant break /daydream time). And presumably it was a potential sales channel whilst we were doing that.
- Navionics got a good deal of free, positive coverage on social media because users would post links to or images from the chart viewer on social media. That was what led me to subscribe.
- That positive coverage has now largely been replaced by "enshitification" / "Why are Garmin such a bunch of 'see you next Tuesdays' ?" posts, or links to competitors. It makes some of us hate Garmin.
- It has sent a message that Garmin will likely kill off Navionics.
 
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As a Professional navigator .. I will make a comment that some may take issue with but that's life ...

The recognised Brands of charts ... CM93 ... Navionics .... C-Map .... Transas and of course the IMO led S57 ENC etc all derive large part of their info from Hydrographic Offices of the world. One of the leading HO's - being UK of course.
Of these - S57 ... CM93 and then C-Map regarded as the leaders and standard in Vector charting .. with Navionics a very close run follow up.

The 'leisure group' brands such as Savvy Navvy .. often take local info and add to their limited chart areas ... making them an interesting alternative to the mainstream offerings for the 'boater' ... but of no interest to Shipping world.

Which is best for each user ? That depends on how wide an area intended to sail .... and whether coverage extends past commercial port area up river etc.
 
TwoFish said:
......
- It has sent a message that Garmin will likely kill off Navionics.
Click to expand...
What basis have you for that weird assertion?
Why would Garmin seek to kill off the leading brand if leisure charts, which is hugely successful.
Just because they changed / removed a free web viewer?
There is increased competition, but Navionics is still clearly the market leader.
 
dunedin said:
What basis have you for that weird assertion?
Why would Garmin seek to kill off the leading brand if leisure charts, which is hugely successful.
Click to expand...

Years of watching corporate acquistions, where (particularly so in the tech sector) the big guy buys the little guy in order to squish a potentially successful competitor, migrate some of their user base and perhaps gain some good IP / staff. Works well for the selling party too. It's just sh!tty for the consumer.
 
TwoFish said:
Years of watching corporate acquistions, where (particularly so in the tech sector) the big guy buys the little guy in order to squish a potentially successful competitor, migrate some of their user base and perhaps gain some good IP / staff. Works well for the selling party too. It's just sh!tty for the consumer.
Click to expand...

Fine - but there is no real assets to sell off as navionics is a digital product. Second Blue Chart and others that Garmin use on other gear is no real competitor to Nvaionics requiring buy out and shut down ... its not exactly same as BMW taking Rover .. extracting the AWD / 4x4 tech ... then shutting it down to remove the rival executive car line ..

The only 'hairbrained' rumour was Google offering to buy Garmins Digital line-up ... reports of 2.8 billion $ ... but it seems that rumour died down quickly.
 
Refueler said:
Of these - S57 ... CM93 and then C-Map regarded as the leaders and standard in Vector charting .. with Navionics a very close run follow up.
Click to expand...
Minor quibble, I believe S-57 is a technical standard for ENCs (i.e. specifies the file format). S-63, in turn, describes an encryption scheme applied to S-57 data as a form of copy-prevention. Thus, if I obtain charts from NOAA in the US, they provide the files in S-57 format. If I obtain charts from other HOs, whether from UKHO or others, they are generally provided in S-63 format. (An interesting case is New Zealand, which kindly provides user-specific decryption keys at no charge.)

The new standards (S-100 products) bring many interesting features, but unfortunately it may well be decades before they become widely available. They include dynamic data layers such as currents and water level information.

And for more technicalities... CMAP and others also sell a few chart products (such as CM93) in ENC (S-whatever) format, but those don't count as "official" since they aren't an HO product, meaning in areas without "official" coverage ships are still supposed maintain a paper plot.
 
Orca is interesting IMO. Different approach to navigation, designed for tablet use (great with Android) and can be used just as an app.

If you want to integrate with other equipment (NMEA2K) you need their Core. Then everything comes together and you can control e.g. the AP from your mobile.

User Group on Facebook, blog on their homepage. Frequent updates and new features.
Bei Facebook anmelden

Users discuss intensively, sometimes even before trying to manage themselves, but I guess that is the nature of FB.
 
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