AQ170 Volvo Penta 6cyl ?? Starter Motor

[mil1194]

When guy first mentioned the bit missing from the spiral - I thought "SH**" .... here goes 400 notes on replacement ... then he handed me the starter ... WOW !

That repair was about 8 or 9yrs ago .. and still as good as day they did it.

The guy who actually did the repair was Russian Old School .... never bin what you can repair. The sort of repairs these old guys did and still do - are amazing ....
As example I've seen them rebuild shafts from worn out scrap - to shiny perfect specimens ...

We spend a lot of time in BG and their levels of ingenuity are fantastic as well.

 

[Refueler]

Starter is back on ... and spins up good - BUT it appears that engage is not always happening - sounds like its trying but pinging as if its not meshing .. guy says starter itself is very good - just needs change the 'movement' on it.

But we noted something else ... there's a cone like pulley on front of engine - alternator belt runs it ...

Once engine started - it was moving in / out as throttle was operated ... Stoppede engine and the cone pulley can be 'wobbled' by hand ... looking in book - its the circulation pump .....

Will start new thread asking advice.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Starter is back on ... and spins up good - BUT it appears that engage is not always happening - sounds like its trying but pinging as if its not meshing .. guy says starter itself is very good - just needs change the 'movement' on it.

But we noted something else ... there's a cone like pulley on front of engine - alternator belt runs it ...

Once engine started - it was moving in / out as throttle was operated ... Stoppede engine and the cone pulley can be 'wobbled' by hand ... looking in book - its the circulation pump .....

Will start new thread asking advice.

Easy advice, change the pump or else.........

 

[Refueler]

Easy advice, change the pump or else.........

That seconds my thoughts and the mechanics ...

I've ordered the full service / repair kit ....

Circulation pump repair kit for Volvo Penta AQ165 AQ170 pump 831742 with 831720

Hope that does the job.

 

[DavidJ]

Starter is back on ... and spins up good - BUT it appears that engage is not always happening - sounds like its trying but pinging as if its not meshing .. guy says starter itself is very good - just needs change the 'movement' on it.

There is no way to change the movement. Some motors will have an eccentric screw adjustment but this is only to adjust the clearance between the end of the pinion throw and the shaft pinion stop.
My guess is that your ring gear is in poor shape…….live with it as long as the problem doesn’t occur too often

 

[Refueler]

The failure to engage is roughly 4 or 5 press to starts before the 5th or 6th engages ..

I've searched online to see if I can get replacement 'bendix parts' (only name I can think of !!) ... but all sites just show complete starter and solenoid unit ..

Will be asking him again today ... but he did say that the movement on the starter was worn.

 

[DavidJ]

The failure to engage is roughly 4 or 5 press to starts before the 5th or 6th engages ..

I've searched online to see if I can get replacement 'bendix parts' (only name I can think of !!) ... but all sites just show complete starter and solenoid unit ..

Will be asking him again today ... but he did say that the movement on the starter was worn.

Yes it would be useful to get a better description of worn movement. The operation is very simple so if it works on his test equipment (I’m assuming he has torque test equipment?) it should work on your engine.

The ‘bendix part’ is called the ‘drive’ and contains the pinion and a roller clutch.

 

[billskip]

I thought your starter was the pre engaged type ....if so it's possible that the solenoid was not an original direct replacement because the motor should not be excited before the gear is pre engaged.

 

[billskip]

The drive pinion should be engaged befor the contact disk makes.

 

[DavidJ]

View attachment 182367
The drive pinion should be engaged befor the contact disk makes.

Your description is correct for the starter motor that you show but some motors have a two stage solenoid when you get tooth to tooth contact and part of the motor is activated until full engagement, then the ‘full’ contact is made to give the full torque.

 

[billskip]

Your description is correct for the starter motor that you show but some motors have a two stage solenoid when you get tooth to tooth contact and part of the motor is activated until full engagement, then the ‘full’ contact is made to give the full torque.

View attachment 182372

Yes agreed, I have worked on this design also. It's difficult to get a clear (to me) description of the fault so trying to keep everything basic. It is also why I suggested it may be possible that the solenoid is not of the original specification..possibly... its also possible during its life a miss matched drive pinion has been fitted....some things that are done are unbelievable which I'm sure you could tell a few stories also.

 

[Refueler]

Mechanic removed starter again today ... he toddled off to car parts shop ... 16 euros for new pinion 'cog' set ... or for want of better name - Bendix. Its correct set as the starter motor was put on the counter to be sure !!

Shop offered new complete unit with solenoid for 97 euros ... which we will fall back to if the new pinion is not successful.

Plan now is that mechanic will fit starter and also fit service repair kit to circulation pump ... fingers crossed - shall be gracing the waters again before summers finished !

 

[Refueler]

Fitted starter again today ... everything apart from light power stuff 'dead' ... no ignition lights / no starter / no outdrive lift / nothing ... guy realised he'd connected wrong ... so starter off again ... back to workshop - make sure of connections ...

It appears that like many old boats, my SR25 is similar - the master switch of each battery is basically that ... for batterys. Full battery power is fed to the Solenoid - power to other circuits is taken from there ...
As said - its common for 60's .. 70's boats ..... as it saves running more large size cables.

The hope is that no damage has been done to gear such as outdrive lift etc.

 

[Refueler]

OK .. starter checked out and all good ... guy returned to boat and fitted.

Guy :> "OK - try that ... "

Me :> "Hang on ... what about that connection not made there ?" One wire was not connected anywhere ...

Guy :> "Its nothing ... try starter"

Me :> "mmmm hang on .. I think that goes here .... " On the engine block is a large wire wound fuse which I believe is the power to console .... so I connected the wire to it

Guy :> he's very quiet !

Turned key ... VROOM !! All working ...

I am sure that this connection was not made previous time starter fitted - leading to guy thinking faulty starter etc.

As my previous post - like many older boats - power is connected to solenoid IN .... and other subsidiary are connected there to avoid having more cables ... the wire he had not connected being the power via fuse to the console and relays.

Now all I need is water circulation pump repaired ... service kit already here ready. Originally this guy had the job - but after the above - I've asked for the mechanic who does engine stuff for the yacht harbour instead.

 

[DavidJ]

Glad your problem is solved
Seems though that you didn’t try the starter with the mystery wire not connected so we still don’t know if it’s anything to do with the problem
Nevertheless it’s one job ticked off
Next one please

 

[Refueler]

Glad your problem is solved
Seems though that you didn’t try the starter with the mystery wire not connected so we still don’t know if it’s anything to do with the problem
Nevertheless it’s one job ticked off
Next one please

The previous attempt when starter had its solenoid replaced and mounted - there was no power at all to console ... guy assumed something wrong with starter .. unfortunately he does not speak english and my russian wasn't good enough ....
I pointed out the unconnected wire ... but he basically said "niet' ...

When he came back with starter all checked out - as per my post above - I connected that wire and power was back on.

 

[DavidJ]

Note that there are no standard pinion types so be thankful that the one he fitted is near enough that it works.

 

[Refueler]

Note that there are no standard pinion types so be thankful that the one he fitted is near enough that it works.

The pinion and 'leg' he fitted are the correct part numbers for that starter ... so I am a little surprised by your comment.