Anyone ever broken an anchor chain?

[srm]

Responding to the OP, Yes.
My first boat, in the 1970's, was an 8 metre Bobcat catamaran. It came with 1/4inch galv anchor chain. I bought and used 5/16 for main anchoring and kept the light chain and Danforth as a backup.
When I sold the boat, it was late in the year, and she was moored using both her anchors and chain in a relatively sheltered corner of Sullom Voe (Shetland). They were building the oil terminal at the time. The new owner left the boat there, on her anchors, all winter. We had a usual Shetland winter with lots of gales and the odd force 10 or so. In the spring he found the light chain had broken about a foot out from the bow roller. The length of chain from deck cleat to break had been stretched with the links pinched together so tightly that it was like a rod.
There was no damage to the boat so we surmised that a workboat had snagged one of the chains and both anchors had held but the chain had broken.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I think it reasonable to request a certificate and totally unreasonable for it not to be available, for every batch being sold. If everyone who bought chain asked for a certificate - the importers and manufacturers would soon get the message.

But why? There are, as you say, practically no cases of anchor chain breaking in service, and if the situation was as bad as you suggest it would be happening all over the place. Do you ask for test certificates every time you buy a rope?

 

[J Neeves]

I do not buy one single rope to secure our yacht and its crew. But I do expect the liferaft to support the crew and I do expect a certificate when it is serviced. My anchor is individually stamped attesting it meets specific standards. My anchor shackles are embossed with a batch number, they are individually proof tested and the batch is sampled and tested to break - and are about 5 times over strength! I do buy chain to secure the yacht and its crew - and I am personally responsible for the crew - and and I expect the chain to be 100% safe. There is a chain industry group in America who have agreed to test every chain batch made in America, it is common international practice to follow the American test protocols and for responsible chain makers to Proof Test every link as the chain is made and to batch test for break. Requesting the certificate is indicative that the chain maker follows, what seems to me, basic minimum standards. It costs nothing for that certificate to be made available. If a test certificate is not made available - why not? It costs virtually nothing to test to break, if it is not Proof Tested - how many batches slip through before anyone notices the poor welds. Chain is almost a commodity - if I cannot obtain a certificate I'd go next door and pay much the same for a chain with a certificate.

A simple Proof Test and failure to break test would (or at least should) have exposed the poor weld in the reported French chain(s). If that specific chain had been sold with a certificate and the chain subsequently tested and shown that the certificate was 'false' - the implications might have been greater for the chain maker.

Chains are a safety items demanded by most maritime authorities and any mechanism to ensure quality is maintained, especially when it can be done cheaply - seems sensible. Random media tests and forum debate are another, relatively cheap, mechanism to keep manufacturers and importers honest.

Memories are short but there have been recent (?) cases where manufacturers (of other items) have tried to cut corners. Testing, media exposure and the internet ensured that such practices are exposed. Maybe if there had been an industry agreed test protocol the 'accident' would never have happened.

Jonathan

 

[Minchsailor]

Not when used as an anchor, but I moored one night to a visitors buoy in Portree, which has a nasty fetch to the SW. I knew something nasty was forecast so I attached to the buoy with (new, from a well known supplier) 8mm chain and a backup rope.

It was a nasty night with very bad snatching as the swells rolled on. Checked the mooring (in pouring rain) several times as I had a real worry that the samson post might pull out. All appeared OK.

In the sober light of dawn doing a pre-breakfast inspection I discovered the chain had parted and we were hanging on by the back-up rope. If it was not for that we would have ended up on the shore in the middle of a wild night.

Checking, the weld on a link had failed. It was evident from the fracture - part rusty, part bright - that this was a manufacturing fault. The supplier replaced the whole chain PDQ. I don't know the origin of the chain or the spec, but the supplier was part of a French group.

 

[macd]

...if I cannot obtain a certificate I'd go next door and pay much the same for a chain with a certificate.

+1
This goes to a point I made in another recent tread about ground tackle, in which I likened the lack of provenance of (some) chain with the situation with some skin fittings. Surely the most credible reason certification isn't routinely available is that we, the consumers, don't ask for it.? If so, the answer's in our hands.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I do not buy one single rope to secure our yacht and its crew.

I have an anchor warp as well as a chain. I've never seen it supplied with a certificate.

My anchor is individually stamped attesting it meets specific standards. My anchor shackles are embossed with a batch number, they are individually proof tested and the batch is sampled and tested to break - and are about 5 times over strength!

I think that reflects more on your own concerns than on an objectively significant problem. As has been pointed out to you before, chain, anchors and shackles are not generally sold here with proof markings and yet we don't have significant problems with them breaking.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Surely the most credible reason certification isn't routinely available is that we, the consumers, don't ask for it.?

And why don;t we ask for it? Because there isn't a problem, that's why. Where there is an established problem, as with through hull fittings, we get picky but where there isn't, as with chain, we don't.

Last time I had to buy fully certified M6 washers for aircraft use, they cost about a fiver each.

 

[macd]

Last time I had to buy fully certified M6 washers for aircraft use, they cost about a fiver each.

I've no doubt that's right. But washers aren't routinely certified whilst chain is.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I've no doubt that's right. But washers aren't routinely certified whilst chain is.

Some chain is, but I don't think it all is. Proper certification is much more than a bit of paper ... there needs to be a direct link (ha-ha) to the piece of chain, so there needs to be marking, batch numbers and all that guff. All of which will cost money, to solve a problem which simply does not exist.

Will you only by certificated anchor warp from now on?

 

[macd]

Will you only by certificated anchor warp from now on?

Yes, if at all possible: just as I'd only trust that chain to reputable, marked shackles such as Wichard. I'd even be prepared to pay a little bit extra for the privilege.
Obviously we differ on this but there's no black-white answer. I have no problem with your point of view.

 

[J Neeves]

+1
This goes to a point I made in another recent tread about ground tackle, in which I likened the lack of provenance of (some) chain with the situation with some skin fittings. Surely the most credible reason certification isn't routinely available is that we, the consumers, don't ask for it.? If so, the answer's in our hands.

I was wondering about JumbleDuck's question, and subsequent reply and macd has answered in part

But I have to wonder why certain vessels in survey must have certificated chain and why the certificate must be made available to a Survey Officer on request. Why is the owner of a vessel in survey, who has a responsibility for the safety of his crew any different to me. And if a vessel in survey can obtain a certificate why not everyone.

But in answer to JumbleDuck, we possibly are lucky (it is the Lucky Country after all) and we do still have 2 chain makers) and have a choice - we can buy at the same price certificated or uncertifcated chain. Why, JumbleDuck, would you not buy certificated chain? I can buy a 3/8th inch rated shackle for stg5, why would I buy one for stg3 (or less - I do not know the price) whose manufacturer I simply do not know, country of origin I do not know, rating (i.e. spec) I do not know. edit, and you can buy rated shackles, every lifting gear supplier has them close edit.

its not a question of why do I recommend buying certificated product - its more, why not? its not a cost, its not onerous.

And there are enough recent examples here on this post that suggest - maybe certification might be no bad thing

another edit, I was lecturing up north, someone after the lecture (I'd ranted on in the same vein as here ) he gave me a shackle, nefarious, it failed (threaded portion section of the pin pulled out of the eye) - no harm done - except he lost a stg400 new anchor (the anchor maker loves him!) - for the sake of not buying a 3/8th" stg5 rated shackle (that I have tested to 8t).

Guess what sort of shackle he uses now.

close edit

 

[JumbleDuck]

Yes, if at all possible: just as I'd only trust that chain to reputable, marked shackles such as Wichard.

Fair enough. I buy tested Wichard shackles too, but I don't think I have ever seen tested and certificated anchor warp on sale.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Why, JumbleDuck, would you not buy certificated chain?

Because I am confident that the stuff I buy is good enough for the job I want it to do, and I have that confidence because there are practically no accounts from anywhere of properly sized chain breaking. I have more important things to worry about.

 

[vyv_cox]

Fair enough. I buy tested Wichard shackles too, but I don't think I have ever seen tested and certificated anchor warp on sale.

Maggi offer a test certificate after proof loading the length bought. It adds about 20% (from memory) to the cost of the chain. I have no experience of others making the same offer but I have a dim memory that Bradney would do it some years ago.

 

[J Neeves]

Some chain is, but I don't think it all is. Proper certification is much more than a bit of paper ... there needs to be a direct link (ha-ha) to the piece of chain, so there needs to be marking, batch numbers and all that guff. All of which will cost money, to solve a problem which simply does not exist.

Will you only by certificated anchor warp from now on?

Because of coral - common practice is 'all chain' in Oz. Also common practice here, all chain is uniquely marked with a makers mark (for 8mm and larger), as Maggi do, as Peerless do for their new metric chain currently available in Europe, as all chain supplied to America must be, as the 2 Oz chain makers do. Equally all chain sold in America must be break tested and Proof Tested. Here a test certificate gives batch number, Proof Load, Break load etc (its free) Its not perfect but its better, IMO, then buying a chain whose provenance is totally unknown. In chandlers here chain is sold from drums with a batch number on the drum - its not rocket science.

But I accept you think it unnecessary and based on current history you are correct - I'm just slightly more cautious, knowing there will be new entrants to the market and I'd like all of the new entrants to meet some form of standard - and not live off an exemplary (well almost) track record of their competitors.

Jonathan

 

[J Neeves]

Not exactly the same aspect, but in France there has been a worrying number of reports of broken chains during a period of a few years, in every case it was due to a manufacturing fault: one link was not correctly soldered and it split open in lightish winds. Most probably a bad batch, though using all the informations from the various users it was difficult to go back to a single manufacturer.

I personally have not seen broken chain, but permanently deformed chain which had worked slightly behind its elastic limits. The links were somehow stretched, very difficult to realize visually by their shape but the chain had become "stiffer", imagine holding a vertical length of chain by one link, slightly moving the link caused the whole of the chain to oscillate a lot more than with a proper chain; it crearly looked like the various links had "seated" against each other.
It was on a fellow boat, it happened with a stuck anchor and the chain being pulled tight vertically, I suppose with wave action.

edit just seen prv talks about the same phenomenon

JumbleDuck, maybe read this one again. Some are less lucky.

Jonathan

 

[OldBawley]

We are on anchor for 15 years now. Non stop, summer and winter. Only exemption is when the boat is sailing.
8 mm chain, boat weight 8 ton, low windage.
Now on chain nr 4, previous chains ware worn down. When the contact area of the links is worn down to 7mm I turn the chain around. Worn chain starts twisting witch can be dangerous when lifting anchor under big load.
Never had or heard of a broken chain.

As a chandler, I sold chain.

I bought chain with a few things in mind.
Price but more important how much profit I could obtain
Ease and speed of delivery
the willingness of the wholesalers representative to offer me free samples.

For chain my best wholesaler was a very well known and respected yacht supplier.
One batch new chain from that supplier turned from the first time it was winched on board.
Hundred of others never did.

Here in the Med I buy chain with someone I trust. What he delivers is ??????. A certificate from an Italian, Greek or Turk ? Don't dream.

So far three yachts broke their mooring this winter in Poros Saronic. Resulting in huge salvage claims by some local. Never a broken chain. It was the last bit of rope that failed.
I suspect some people use polypropylene rope. It looks strong and thick but breaks due to UV and the occasional storm.

 

[charles_reed]

Maggi offer a test certificate after proof loading the length bought. It adds about 20% (from memory) to the cost of the chain. I have no experience of others making the same offer but I have a dim memory that Bradney would do it some years ago.

I can confirm that when I bought 50m of 8mm chain from Bradney, in 2002, the certificate came with the drum which I collected.
Thank goodness the chain, put into the car at Cradeley Heath by FLT, never had to be taken out until we got to Argélés.
They still offer to certificate their chain even though it's produced in China (as far as I know for no extra charge)

 

[J Neeves]

I think one reason we do not hear of stretched or broken chain, bent anchors, failed swivels and shackles is for the very simple reason most people do not allow themselves to anchor where stresses are likely to be high. Most will not leave home if the conditions are to be very ordinary - one idea of sailing is that its a pleasure and relaxation from the rest of life - the last thing people want is to put their ground tackle under load. I also suspect that those that are living on their yacht, whether it be used as a floating caravan or whether they cruise long distances, choose ground tackle with some care - they use better anchors, buy rated shackles either use Kong swivels or no swivel and buy chain from a reputable source and/or even over strength chain. I also think these liveaboards take notice of forecast and when 'Storms' are forecast move to somewhere where the winds will be much less than Storm Force 10 - not to move and endure Storm Force 10 looks a way to ensure you do not sleep.

What is noticeable is that the reports of broken chain have come from a mooring environment, where the vessel could not be moved, or for a failure in the weld. The former might be under specified or old chain but the latter would and should have been identified by a simple Proof Test (and for belt and braces - maybe Vyv's twist test).

There is an underlying suggestion that Proof Testing is not the norm - and if this is the case, what assurance do you have there was any quality control at all. To me a certificated chain gives some assurance there was some form of QC, the absence of a certificate (and you will not know unless you ask) raises questions - which you can ignore if you want - we are all still able to make that choice. Vyv's research suggested most G30 chain in the UK was of a quality near G40, but he did find some questionable, or less good, product. As Chinese chain is not marked, except for CMP Titan, i do wonder how you know if its the largely good stuff or the questionable stuff. I think Bradney's should be thanked for their diligence and people take advantage of what they offer. In the Med, buy from Maggi?

But if you are a fair weather sailor, like us - I am sure your chain will be safe if you steer clear of anchorages suffering 50 knot winds and always use a snubber.

Jonathan

 

[JumbleDuck]

But if you are a fair weather sailor, like us - I am sure your chain will be safe if you steer clear of anchorages suffering 50 knot winds and always use a snubber.

Haven't found a source of proof tested snubbers.