Another death on the Clipper race

[E39mad]

What concerns me is that she didn't survive. They managed to recover her in not much more than an hour - quite an achievement in itself given the conditions - but she was already dead. I would have expected MOB survival times of more than that in those conditions.

If (and we don't know) she was knocked unconscious on the way overboard then the chances of survival are slim unless a very swift recovery can take place.

I understand she has been on the boat from the start of the event.

I agree with those who say blaming the skipper at this early juncture is premature without knowing the facts. Also sailing through the Needles channel (when it is more likely that ALL crew and skipper are on deck) is rather different than having a watch systems on board with watch leaders

Thoughts with the family and crew.

 

[shaunksb]

I cannot believe she wasn't clipped on all skippers have a duty of care to their crew so hopefuly the skipper will be prosecuted when he returns home. An example is a skipper decided to enter the Solent by the Needles in wind against tide and gale force winds, a crew member was washed overboard and died, the skipper was prosectuted.

Usually the insensitive and ill informed posts don't start this early on in these threads. Even by ybw standards this will take some beating.

We know very little at this stage about the detail and that is for another day.

Meanwhile it is a very sad that a young woman has lost her life. My thoughts are with her loved ones.

_____________________________

 

[Barnacle Bill]

I cannot believe she wasn't clipped on all skippers have a duty of care to their crew so hopefuly the skipper will be prosecuted when he returns home. An example is a skipper decided to enter the Solent by the Needles in wind against tide and gale force winds, a crew member was washed overboard and died, the skipper was prosectuted.

I think you're missing the point - clipping on has an element of personal responsibility, and it's hard to believe that this wasn't part of her training.

The situation was very different to one (that most of us are more used to) where the skipper continuously overseas inexperienced crew.

 

[snowleopard]

I'm sure the skipper had standing orders to be clipped on, though I personally don't insist on clipping on in the cockpit. The choice to ignore such orders is the responsibility of the individual. A witch-hunt against the skipper is unfair and unnecessary. I suggest the armchair Hornblowers back off until more is known.

Those who claim it would never happen to them as they never make mistakes should perhaps examine themselves and see how they stack up against the likes of Eric Tabarly and Alain Colas.

There was a thread about who had fallen overboard some months ago and among those who hadn't there was a general assumption that it was down to superiority, not luck. I have news - no one is perfect.

 

[Roberto]

What concerns me is that she didn't survive. They managed to recover her in not much more than an hour - quite an achievement in itself given the conditions - but she was already dead. I would have expected MOB survival times of more than that in those conditions.

A number of persons having fallen overboard are found dead by heart attack, rather than drowning. Of course I have no idea of the causes in this specific case.


RIP, sad news

 

[mjcoon]

I'm sure the skipper had standing orders to be clipped on, though I personally don't insist on clipping on in the cockpit.

Sir Robin Knox-Johnston was interviewed on TV this morning and mentioned the usual guidance of being clipped on when "on deck". Of course the presenters did not pick up on the technicality that sailors would consider being in the cockpit as distinct from being on deck. RK-J did not mention this either.

Mike.

 

[Grumpybear]

Sir Robin Knox-Johnston was interviewed on TV this morning and mentioned the usual guidance of being clipped on when "on deck". Of course the presenters did not pick up on the technicality that sailors would consider being in the cockpit as distinct from being on deck. RK-J did not mention this either.

Mike.

Really? I wouldn't make that distinction.

 

[dom]

It would be sad, undignified and generally pathetic if this thread descends into the gutter. Sarah looks like such such a fit, healthy and delightful character, as did that other poor chap who died off Portugal a few months back.

This terrible accident leaves a thousand questions in the air and until we get some answers we cannot possibly exonerate the skipper, or indeed condemn him. Nor can we cast any aspersions on the attitude to safety of poor Sarah, or indeed any of the crew. It is tiring work changing big heavy sails in a blow and when people are tired and wet they will fall back onto the prevailing safety protocols -- perhaps these were inadequate, perhaps they weren't followed, we just don't know.

I would hazard a guess that those who are rushing to judge the skipper are reacting to that somewhat cold and legally calibrated statement Clipper put up on their website. Legalese is never pleasant to read as it is largely comprised of boilerplate platitudes found on the word-processors of every half-competent law firm. It was most certainly not penned by the skipper. The BBC and other newspapers felt similarly, but notice how their measured insistence for a proper explanation has got a real sailor RKJ (not sure what his involvement to Clipper is anymore) to commit to an inquiry. We should surely support this and indeed RKJ with open arms.

And most importantly, RIP to Sarah, if those pictures were anything to go by she was so full of life and it is always a tragedy when the sea snatches one of us from our boats.

 

[bitbaltic]

Really? I wouldn't make that distinction.

+1 neither would I.

I don't think it's been mentioned but there is an MAIB current investigation ongoing for the previous fatality on Ichorcoal. Given the circumstances that have been reported I imagine there'll be one for this incident too. Those reports are where we'll get the facts and be able to make up our minds. Whatever happened yesterday is a tragedy all round, the only good will be if any lessons can be learned.

 

[alant]

Sir Robin Knox-Johnston was interviewed on TV this morning and mentioned the usual guidance of being clipped on when "on deck". Of course the presenters did not pick up on the technicality that sailors would consider being in the cockpit as distinct from being on deck. RK-J did not mention this either.

Mike.

On deck, means on deck, including the cockpit. Anything outside the companionway, is on deck!

 

[steve yates]

I cannot believe she wasn't clipped on all skippers have a duty of care to their crew so hopefuly the skipper will be prosecuted when he returns home. An example is a skipper decided to enter the Solent by the Needles in wind against tide and gale force winds, a crew member was washed overboard and died, the skipper was prosectuted.

Are you for real?

Ocean racing is an extreme sport. Amateur or professional makes no difference here, like mountaineering. Those who take part are personally responsible for their own safety at all times. And mistakes happen. Sometimes it's sheer bad luck.

It's very sad, I hope the skipper and crew never read some of the crap written on here.

 

[Giblets]

On deck, means on deck, including the cockpit. Anything outside the companionway, is on deck!

Agreed. In fact I believe the Clipper boats' cockpits are quite shallow compared with most of the AWB type boats that folk on here sail.

 

[Wansworth]

It used to be one hand fro the ship that was when we realised the dangers of the sea and that is not some gamemaybe she thought herself invincible or she just forgot and the sea took its chance.

 

[mainsail1]

Are you for real?

Ocean racing is an extreme sport. Amateur or professional makes no difference here, like mountaineering. Those who take part are personally responsible for their own safety at all times. And mistakes happen. Sometimes it's sheer bad luck.

It's very sad, I hope the skipper and crew never read some of the crap written on here.

+1. Far too early to start the blame game.

 

[Dave100456]

I cannot believe she wasn't clipped on all skippers have a duty of care to their crew so hopefuly the skipper will be prosecuted when he returns home. An example is a skipper decided to enter the Solent by the Needles in wind against tide and gale force winds, a crew member was washed overboard and died, the skipper was prosectuted.

It is incredulous that you can't believe something that has been reported as statement of fact; matched only by your hope for a prosecution when you do not know all the facts!

 

[boatman61]

Anyone who's been out there knows that the text book does not always apply.. there were it seems rising wind/sea conditions and she may have been on 'standby watch' who are called up to assist when things look like going pear shaped..
She rushed up to help in an urgent reef, maybe miss clipped one of the permanent tethers some keep in the cockpit.. or did not have time..
As my above comments.. its all speculation at the moment and its well known.. 'Shit Happens'..
My condolences to Family and friends of hers.. and my sympathies to the crew who sailed with her.. I cannot begin to imagine how absolutely gutted they must be feeling..

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

"Very frustrated at knowing Sarah was not tethered. It takes about 3 seconds to clip on". Sir Robin.

S.

 

[[33964]]

I met Sarah during my Clipper training.

I did the southern ocean leg.

I've also sailed the Solent.

Comparing the two is just deplorable, and ill informed solent sailors casting judgement on a situation they could not possibly comprehend is insulting.

Fact: Clipping on is a standing order from when at the top of the companion way.

Fact. Whether AWB sailors or ocean racers, I have yet to meet one that doesn't occasionally neglect to clip on.

This is a terrible accident and horrific coincidence for Darren Ladd the skipper.

My thoughts are with Sarahs family, partner, the rest of the crew and the wider Clipper family.

The MAIB report will get to the bottom of it.

So for now can the solent / armchair sailors please can the smartass comments and show a little respect.

A young lady has died.

 

[boatman61]

I met Sarah during my Clipper training.

I did the southern ocean leg.

I've also sailed the Solent.

Comparing the two is just deplorable, and ill informed solent sailors casting judgement on a situation they could not possibly comprehend is insulting.

Fact: Clipping on is a standing order from when at the top of the companion way.

Fact. Whether AWB sailors or ocean racers, I have yet to meet one that doesn't occasionally neglect to clip on.

This is a terrible accident and horrific coincidence for Darren Ladd the skipper.

My thoughts are with Sarahs family, partner, the rest of the crew and the wider Clipper family.

The MAIB report will get to the bottom of it.

So for now can the solent / armchair sailors please can the smartass comments and show a little respect.

A young lady has died.

A+1000
Sympathy would be preferable to crap..

 

[Racecruiser]

I looked at this thread earlier and thought I'll keep out of it despite a rising level of annoyance with some contributions. However I've changed my mind just to say:

'Well said Comrade Red'.