Another death on the Clipper race

Scotty_Tradewind said:
"Very frustrated at knowing Sarah was not clipped on" Sir Robin.

S.
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Well he would be.. it reflects poorly on his Enterprise.. however I find his comment mildly amusing considering this is the guy who used to dive of the bow of Suhali and swim till the stern caught up then re-board.. while he was soloing the 1st RTW.. if you've set the example...!!!
 
boatman61 said:
Well he would be.. it reflects poorly on his Enterprise.. however I find his comment mildly amusing considering this is the guy who used to dive of the bow of Suhali and swim till the stern caught up then re-board.. while he was soloing the 1st RTW.. if you've set the example...!!!
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What a grubby little comment.
 
>Usually the insensitive and ill informed posts don't start this early on in these threads. Even by ybw standards this will take some beating.

It's not ill informed it's from experience see below.

>>I think you're missing the point - clipping on has an element of personal responsibility, and it's hard to believe that this wasn't part of her training.

It's not a personal responsibility I know a number participants and they were inexperienced sailors who did a training course. After that the the the skipper should lay down the rules, I did that with anyone who sailed with us.

The wind was 35 to 40 knots which Jane and I when long distance sailing viewed as bad weather, our rule was always clip on in bad weather and at night. The skipper should have briefed the crew including watch keepers to enforce that after training them, he clearly didn't and is responsible under duty of care.
 
boatman61 said:
Well he would be.. it reflects poorly on his Enterprise.. however I find his comment mildly amusing considering this is the guy who used to dive of the bow of Suhali and swim till the stern caught up then re-board.. while he was soloing the 1st RTW.. if you've set the example...!!!
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Comment ..... not even worthy of The Lounge!

Sadly some people do not do what they are trained and ordered to do in whilst in the thick of things.

S.
 
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+1 with Comrade Red. Whilst the skipper can set the safety culture/attitude on board a yacht, he or she cannot oversee every task or action that takes place - there will always be a element of personal responsibility. Training can mitigate but not eliminate the dangers. Sarah was clearly very experienced having done most of the legs, and seems to have been a very adventurous type. Her death is very sad and a reminder of the dangers of sailing. Condolences to fellow crew, friends and family.
 
Re the last dozen posts, or so.

Just remember, "Humans are fallible".
That's why accidents and tragedies happen.

Fallible includes, but not exclusively:-
unfortunate, ignorant, untrained, stupid, neglectful, frightened, over-confident, unwell, exhausted, lonely and even more.

As above, "Shit happens".

Let's not play the blame or derision games until the facts are presented.
 
Comrade Red said:
Fact: Clipping on is a standing order from when at the top of the companion way.

Fact. Whether AWB sailors or ocean racers, I have yet to meet one that doesn't occasionally neglect to clip on.

This is a terrible accident and horrific coincidence for Darren Ladd the skipper.

My thoughts are with Sarahs family, partner, the rest of the crew and the wider Clipper family.

The MAIB report will get to the bottom of it.

So for now can the solent / armchair sailors please can the smartass comments and show a little respect.

A young lady has died.
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I agree with all that.

Richard
 
RichardS said:
That is so terrible for her family. Assuming that one or both of her parents are still alive, I cannot possibly imagine that being one of my Sons.

I guess that there must be no alternatives as that one doesn't bear thinking about.

Richard
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It would seem that both her parents are deceased, no siblings and no children. Only relative is apparently an aunt in New Zealand: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/sailing/35949645

Very sad.
 
KellysEye said:
>Usually the insensitive and ill informed posts don't start this early on in these threads. Even by ybw standards this will take some beating.

It's not ill informed it's from experience see below.

>>I think you're missing the point - clipping on has an element of personal responsibility, and it's hard to believe that this wasn't part of her training.

It's not a personal responsibility I know a number participants and they were inexperienced sailors who did a training course. After that the the the skipper should lay down the rules, I did that with anyone who sailed with us.

The wind was 35 to 40 knots which Jane and I when long distance sailing viewed as bad weather, our rule was always clip on in bad weather and at night. The skipper should have briefed the crew including watch keepers to enforce that after training them, he clearly didn't and is responsible under duty of care.
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Trying to dig yourself out of your previous post you've just upgraded your shovel to a JCB. Have some respect and leave the judgements for another day once the facts have been obtained.
 
Scotty_Tradewind said:
This is very sad news.

In this instance ...... Sarah was extremely experienced and knew the risks and should have been fully aware of when to be attached.

This was not a Sunday afternoon jaunt in the Solent with inexperienced crew.

A skipper of a large yacht in 35-40knots would have had many things to attend to and assess at this time and so an experienced crew has to take personal responsibility for staying safe.

S.
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+2
 
I've participated in a number of outdoor sports, notably caving which I did at a serious level and mountaineering as well as ultimately becoming an offshore sailor/racer. I always say that safety is down to the individual taking part and no one else. The concept of the skipper being God isn't one that's prevalent in other outdoor sports.
 
I'll qualify what I've said by saying is obviously a situation with novices, unfamiliar and incompetent crew. Skippers have to make themselves aware of crew capabilities and act accordingly. This doesn't apply to Clipper yachts as the crew are trained, filtered and hopefully aware of safety.
 
Very sad. RIP Sarah.

And well put ComradeRed (and others of the same genre).

There cannot be many of us on here that are so perfect that we have never failed to clip on when we should have - but our luck held and so we are here to post comments.
RKJ doesn't yet know the full facts and so has asked for a full review when the boats arrive in port. Unless we exceed his knowledge of the facts (unlikely) and ocean experience (also unlikely) we should leave to him to ascertain the causes.
 
dunedin said:
RKJ doesn't yet know the full facts and so has asked for a full review when the boats arrive in port. Unless we exceed his knowledge of the facts (unlikely) and ocean experience (also unlikely) we should leave to him to ascertain the causes.
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Fully agree as per earlier post, but with a caveat: the flip side of RKJ's familiarity with Clipper is that he's clearly an interested party, as some other poster got immediately jumped upon for quite rightly pointing out.

There is no intrinsic harm in internal inquires and companies often and quite sensibly conduct them. If however one wants the findings to stand up outside the company (and that's what Clipper is), and most certainly within any judicial framework, it is usual to out-farm the task to an independent lawfirm or other competent person/body.
 
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