Another Boat manoeuvring in windy conditions thread

[doug748]

On the Dutch spring idea, which way do you put the rudder when going ahead

DavidMH

There is a PBO video on YouTube where they show what they call "spronging".
I have found this works well and has the advantage of being easy to arrange singlehanded.

,

 

[B27]

But that would have required us to anticipate there was going to be a problem.

The barge left first and it was only after that, we cast off and found the wind would not release us from the wall.

Now we are a bit wiser next time I hope we can just avoid the situation.

But more generally if you had this situation in a marina, the wind was blowing you hard onto your pontoon with a lot of other boats about, how would you do it. At least we were last boat in the lock, so nothing else to damage.

A small boat and enough crew, you can do a lot by manual force.
Small boat with an outboard, 'crew force' may be greater and more versatile than engine thrust

On bigger boats than mine, I often expect to use some form of spring to get one or other end out.

I've used lines across to fixed things to windward.

If there is any current, that may help or not!

I adapt and survive, but if I had to generalise about a typical springing action, it would be motoring forwards against a spring run from the bow, to get the stern out. On my boat, this gives some gain from the rudder. But it requires space to leave backwards.


This takes me back to my YM prep week and exam.
It's important that at least one of the crew understands what you're going to do.

If you're singlehanded, then I'm not the right person to ask.

 

[Geoff Wode]

Dave, were you stbd to the wall?

 

[ProDave]

No was port to wall.

 

[jbweston]

On the Dutch spring idea, which way do you put the rudder when going ahead

DavidMH

Counter-intuitively you steer towards the wall, at least to start with, which with the engine ahead limits the pressure on the after fender. After the whole boat is starting to swing away from the wall I think the steering doesn't make much difference. But it is a few years since I've done it as I sold the Sadler over 10 years ago, so can't remember clearly. My last sailing boat had a bowthruster and generally that was powerful enough to push the bow off into the wind.

Like most manoeuvres it's worth giving it a try in benign conditions when there's a bit of spare space to see how well it works for you and in case the boat has a mind of her own.

 

[ctva]

No was port to wall.

Always park on the upwind side of the lock.

I take it you are heading west, we exited the canal easy only 4 days ago. Have fun.

 

[ANDY_W]

I singlehand so have no crew to assist. I have used ' Dutch ' springing but take the line round the appropriate sheet winch rather than the midships cleat. I can then retrieve the spring without leaving the cockpit. Make sure the stern and quarter are well fendered.
Another method is to use a bow spring and motor ahead against it but, if sufficient room available, keep on until the stern points directly into wind. The wind is not pushing the stern one way or the other for a few moments and gives me sufficient time to nip forward and recover the spring. Obviously the bow has to be well fendered so some thought must be given to ensure the fenders stay in place during the exercise.

 

[LittleSister]

I don't think anyone has yet mentioned, in relation to springing especially, that most boats' bows will be harder to move into the wind, and fall faster to leeward once off the wall/pontoon, than the stern. Just another factor, but often an important one, to throw into the considerations.

We had an "issue" last week getting off a stone wall we were moored to, with the wind pinning us onto the wall. No amount of pushing off manually would keep the boat off the wall long enough to get enough way on to steer it away from the wall.

Note that legs are longer and stronger than arms for pushing off a wall. Also, unlike standing and only leaning to push the wall, you'll typically have a coachroof to brace yourself against if you sit down, or often a toe rail to hold onto. (Mind you don't get limbs trapped between boat and wall, though.)

Probably only practicable if you have crew, you can also not just use your legs to push the boat away from the wall, but also walk the boat along the wall either out of the lock completely (mind gaps/gear around lock gates that legs/feet/arms might get caught on), or to a section of the lock more sheltered from the wind e.g. by tree, building or whatever (if available).

When trying to push straight off (whether with arms, legs or boathooks/brooms) bear in mind that boat hulls, especially those of sailing boats, are designed to go forwards (and backwards) easily, but to resist moving sideways. So (a) it will take a moment and extra effort to start it moving in a sideways direction then get easier and faster, and (b) if you can get it moving fast enough so that it continues moving sideways against the wind once you've reached full stretch all the better, if not it may perhaps be worth pausing a moment at full stretch so that the water movement (eddies etc.) you've created around the hull and keel dissipate so that the wind has to get the boat moving sideways again (in the opposite direction) from a complete boat and water standstiill (probably only a marginal difference, but it might just be enough to make a difference in some circumstances).

Note that it takes a moment to get the engine into gear and for the prop to start shifting water to move the boat, so 'get yer motor running' (at least at tickover, ideally faster if circumstances permit) while you are still holding the boat at full stretch from the wall.

Note also that once moving forward your rudder will push the stern of your boat as much, probably more (especially in this wind), towards the wall than it will push the bow away from it. Do not try to turn sharply away from the wall! Turn the boat only very gently away for the wall initially. Accelerate as fast as you can or dare as the boat moving forward faster will slide sideways less and bow blow downwind less (especially if sporty high-aspect ratio keel(s), rather than more cruiserly low-aspect keel(s) or long keel), and gradually sharpen your turn as the available clearance from the wall increases.

It would be too deep (lock was full) and I doubt the lock keeper would be impressed with you throwing an anchor out.

You could turn the problem on its head by staying where you are until the lock level is next lowered (e.g. for craft going the other way), and then, sheltered from the walls by the lock walls, move to the windward side, where you can get off easily when it is filled again.

 

[Daydream believer]

Top tip is to be on the windward side in the first place....

Needs a bit of planning. it is Ok in theory with a crew, but hard work SH, unless one informs the lock keeper first as one will blow off the wall rather quickly.. I found that most in the Cally canal will help.
The OPs situation should only happen at the top of the lock. When at the bottom one is normally well shielded from the wind by the steep sides.

 

[ProDave]

Always park on the upwind side of the lock.

I take it you are heading west, we exited the canal easy only 4 days ago. Have fun.

Yes park on upwind side is #1 tip to learn from this, discuss with lock keeper before entering. Before this happened it was not something I expected to be an issue.

No we are back home now. It was a little outing to "do" the canal with SWMBO. We had 7 days on the canal made it to Banavie and back, got to sail on Loch Ness and Loch Lochy but not enough time to go out to sea at the western end. SWMBO is still working, probably retiring next year so we will then be free of such 4 letter words like "work"

 

[B27]

Needs a bit of planning. it is Ok in theory with a crew, but hard work SH, unless one informs the lock keeper first as one will blow off the wall rather quickly.. I found that most in the Cally canal will help.
The OPs situation should only happen at the top of the lock. When at the bottom one is normally well shielded from the wind by the steep sides.

The comes a point where you need adequate crew to suit the boat and what you expect to do.

My mate with the gin palace would be fine, twin engines, plus bow and stern thrusters.

 

[srm]

A bit of thread drift.
The first time I went through the Caledonian Canal I looked through the regulations for transiting vessels. The one that I remember was to the effect that all vessels must trim yards and other spars so that none overhang the canal structures. The regs have been updated since then as I specifically looked for it on a later passage.
Wonder how the skippers of those old vessels managed the cross winds in the top locks?

 

[dunedin]

A bit of thread drift.
The first time I went through the Caledonian Canal I looked through the regulations for transiting vessels. The one that I remember was to the effect that all vessels must trim yards and other spars so that none overhang the canal structures. The regs have been updated since then as I specifically looked for it on a later passage.
Wonder how the skippers of those old vessels managed the cross winds in the top locks?

Lots of rope work I would imagine. Presumably being pulled by horses?

 

[Daydream believer]

Lots of rope work I would imagine. Presumably being pulled by horses?

By the time the canal was built engine power was quite the norm

 

[LittleSister]

By the time a few of your attempts to get off the wall have failed, a sizeable crowd of spectators will probably have gathered. Get them to bunch together upwind of you to act as a windbreak!

 

[Wansworth]

By the time a few of your attempts to get off the wall have failed, a sizeable crowd of spectators will probably have gathered. Get them to bunch together upwind of you to act as a windbreak!

Setup a bar and sell milkshakes and burgers

 

[dunedin]

By the time the canal was built engine power was quite the norm

I’ll bow to your knowledge - I wasnt around then
But the full rigged ships with the yardarms referred to rarely had steam engines when the canal opened in 1822. That was later.

 

[LittleSister]

A bit of thread drift.
The first time I went through the Caledonian Canal I looked through the regulations for transiting vessels. The one that I remember was to the effect that all vessels must trim yards and other spars so that none overhang the canal structures. The regs have been updated since then as I specifically looked for it on a later passage.
Wonder how the skippers of those old vessels managed the cross winds in the top locks?

The difficulty of navigating the canal (not just in the locks) in the wind funnelled by the mountains was a significant concern to those investigating the potential for the call: one of the reasons that the first plan for the canal was abandoned, and remained a concern when later more detailed plans and costings etc. were being worked up..

Lots of rope work I would imagine. Presumably being pulled by horses?

By the time the canal was built engine power was quite the norm

In 1822?

In those days manpower was widely available and cheap. Crews would have been larger, and I imagine the canal company would have significant numbers of hands available to help work ships through the locks, especially the flight of locks (Fort Augustus?), and if/where/when they hadn't local people would probably gather when ships were coming through for the prospect of some casual work.

 

[johnalison]

The Caledonian canal is obviously different to most Dutch locks. I have often transited the Netherlands in terrible weather and almost invariably boats within the locks are sheltered from the wind, so tying up or leaving is not really a problem.

 

[Daydream believer]

In 1822?

1822 possibly, yes. But they made such a pigs ear of building it that it could be argued that proper completion was some years later.
One of the flights of locks collapsed- cannot recall which one.
Steam tugs were available from circa 1830 ( yes, my term engine should have better been described as motive power)
Horses could not be used on much of the route which is obvious to anyone using the canal. If the wind channels up & down the canal- which I suspect is likely - then sailing against it would be a no no.
So steam tugs would have been the solution- Were they used? Puffers took trade away by going round the outside.