Jaguar 25
Well-Known Member
Presume it would be difficult bu is it possible to check the lifting keel on an Anderson 22 when going to view as prospective purchase with the boat on its trailer?
Anderson 22 Lift Keel Check
- Thread starter Jaguar 25
- Start date
Rum Run
Well-Known Member
From experience it is not possible.. Not that it was a problem for me with Rum Run
You can easily inspect the lifting cable, and it is easily replaced. The original winches are getting on a bit but are still available if this one is too tired.
If you subsequently find that the keel plate has some really deep pits I would recommend depositing arc-weld into the pits, grinding flat and painting over. Actually I did some finite element analysis of various hypothetical cases of a continuous line of up to 1/4" deep rust pits (the plate is 3/4" thick)along the worst possible area of the plate in a 90 degree knock-down and the stresses were still acceptable ( to me anyway) . Replacement keels are available too. Andy Lawson replaced his but this was because the bulb cracked! From the photos it looks like a poor casting that absorbed fresh water into a porous slag inclusion that then froze in icy weather, cracking the casting. (IMHO mind )
If the keel is your only worry and everything else suits, buy her then get her lifted in the slings at a marina for a few hours, grind off any rust and paint, re-coat with Dulux Metalshield and go sailing.
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JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
I own the one of the Anderson 22's wee sisters, a Hunter 490. Different builder, obviously, but the same designer and an amazing number of similarities. In particular the keel and lifting designs are more or less the same.
Basically it's a flat steel plate inserted into a slot in a cast iron bulb and secured there with a big pin (more than on pin on an A22). The bulb is pretty bomb-proof, but the plates can rust. Mine is a bit thin immediately above the bulb, but I am not panicking yet.
They are reasonably straightforward to fix; a local blacksmiths ought to be able to push, drill or burn out the pin and then remove the plate with suitable brutality before fitting a new one. If an A22 one can't be repaired then I understand that Seajet (Andy) has arranged with the foundry who made them always to have one spare in stock.
I'd advise anyone looking at a Hunter 490 to check two things. First of all, the condition of the pin. Secondly, the condition of the plate immediately above (ie within 1" of) the bulb. The 490 is a light we thing and can be lifted up fom it's keel by two hearty people, a scaffold pole and some rope. That would be a little harder on an A22.
The winch is a Dutton-Lainson braked winch, which means you can use it to winch in either direction. Sometime people replace them with standard trailer winches, which is foolhardy in the extreme because you have no effective lowering control. The strop (on a 490) is just a length of 7x19 wire rope (5mm, I think) with an eye in one end. Both winch and strop are trivially easy to replace, though you have to buy the winch from D-L in America.
I expect Seajet will bealong soon to give The Word which, coming from him, will be definitive!
Basically it's a flat steel plate inserted into a slot in a cast iron bulb and secured there with a big pin (more than on pin on an A22). The bulb is pretty bomb-proof, but the plates can rust. Mine is a bit thin immediately above the bulb, but I am not panicking yet.
They are reasonably straightforward to fix; a local blacksmiths ought to be able to push, drill or burn out the pin and then remove the plate with suitable brutality before fitting a new one. If an A22 one can't be repaired then I understand that Seajet (Andy) has arranged with the foundry who made them always to have one spare in stock.
I'd advise anyone looking at a Hunter 490 to check two things. First of all, the condition of the pin. Secondly, the condition of the plate immediately above (ie within 1" of) the bulb. The 490 is a light we thing and can be lifted up fom it's keel by two hearty people, a scaffold pole and some rope. That would be a little harder on an A22.
The winch is a Dutton-Lainson braked winch, which means you can use it to winch in either direction. Sometime people replace them with standard trailer winches, which is foolhardy in the extreme because you have no effective lowering control. The strop (on a 490) is just a length of 7x19 wire rope (5mm, I think) with an eye in one end. Both winch and strop are trivially easy to replace, though you have to buy the winch from D-L in America.
I expect Seajet will bealong soon to give The Word which, coming from him, will be definitive!
Seajet
...
Hi Jaguar 25,
if you PM me I'll give an honest description of the boat, if I know her.
You can't really inspect the keel plate with her on a trailer; the best you could do would be to take a powerful torch and look down the sides of the plate from inside - but seeing as it's a rather important safety idea for the keel to remain intact, having the boat hoisted and keel lowered is the only real way - it might be worth taking off the small tin plate cover behind the keel winch handle, to check the pawl isn't worn - but a new winch is easily fitted and only around £100 so not a show-stopper anyway.
If the winch wears out, it ' fails safe ' with the keel down - which is good for safety but maybe not on the wallet as a marina or deep water berth will be required temporarily - when this happened to me, Dutton Lainson even told me which ship the new winch was coming on, with daily progress updates and ETA.
The keels are not a weakness, they're very strong - 3/4" galvanised mild steel with a 900lb cast iron bulb on the end; one of the best features is that the bulb is veed on top so it fairs in with the hull, keeeping small stones etc from jamming it as happens on other lift keelers.
However the boats are around 40 years old now, so some inspection and maintainence is to be expected.
This is one of the reasons I don't like trailers; I keep my boat on high trestles every winter ( the simple plans for these are free to members of the Owners Association, and I've supplied them to people with other lift keelers too ).
My original keel developed deep pitting in a horizontal line about 1-2" above the bulb; the ballast bulb was and is fine.
About 4-5 of the 182 boats have new keels inc mine; we have newly made ones available from the original foundry; replacement is quite simple for anyone with a tiny bit of engineering knowledge though I wouldn't do it every weekend for fun !
I think my keel corroded for several reasons ganging up on me;
first off, I didn't know better for the first 10 years or so, and left the boat ashore every winter with the keel retracted.
Also, my mooring is in ' an area of accelerated steel corrosion ', last I heard still being investigated by Portsmouth Uni' Marine Metallurgy Dept;
My own theories about this are, it could be because of the nearby mains power supply to Hayling Island, or because the mud is full of German bombs - the area was the ' Starfish 16 ' decoy site to lure the Luftwaffe away from Porstsmouth's docks...
I had a welder chum try to fill the pitting, but it doesn't work - disimilar metals.
Since I fitted a small anode on my new keel there doesn't seem to be any corrosion - the anode is on the front of the plate where it protrudes from the bulb - there are no electrics in the boat anywhere near the keel assembly but as it seems to work I don't worry about how & why.
Please note, ALL lift keelers require some TLC for the keel plate, it's not particular to Andersons.
Jumbleduck is right, the keel winches are still available new and very easy to fit, though not often required; and it's a braked winch, so clicks on a ratchet pawl when raising, and lowers as quickly or slowly as one wants, it can't ' run away ' in a blurr !
I did see one awfully neglected example with a normal trailer winch fitted, so as soon as she's hoisted to launch, the keel will extend and she'll be a fin keeler - but she's not on a trailer so hopefully not the one you're considering.
BTW the A22 keel is not a flat steel plate, the leading edge is rounded and the aft third tapered to a fine edge, giving something a bit more hydrodynamic.
There's a thick tufnol shock absorber in the aft end of the keel case so the keel hopefully won't ' butterknife ' into the hull if running aground at speed.
I'm in the middle of building a new website, but the old one with a ' Buyer's Guide ' is still at
www.anderson22class.co.uk
Please feel free to PM me and exchange e-mail addresses or tel' no's and I'll happilly chat.
Regards,
Andy
if you PM me I'll give an honest description of the boat, if I know her.
You can't really inspect the keel plate with her on a trailer; the best you could do would be to take a powerful torch and look down the sides of the plate from inside - but seeing as it's a rather important safety idea for the keel to remain intact, having the boat hoisted and keel lowered is the only real way - it might be worth taking off the small tin plate cover behind the keel winch handle, to check the pawl isn't worn - but a new winch is easily fitted and only around £100 so not a show-stopper anyway.
If the winch wears out, it ' fails safe ' with the keel down - which is good for safety but maybe not on the wallet as a marina or deep water berth will be required temporarily - when this happened to me, Dutton Lainson even told me which ship the new winch was coming on, with daily progress updates and ETA.
The keels are not a weakness, they're very strong - 3/4" galvanised mild steel with a 900lb cast iron bulb on the end; one of the best features is that the bulb is veed on top so it fairs in with the hull, keeeping small stones etc from jamming it as happens on other lift keelers.
However the boats are around 40 years old now, so some inspection and maintainence is to be expected.
This is one of the reasons I don't like trailers; I keep my boat on high trestles every winter ( the simple plans for these are free to members of the Owners Association, and I've supplied them to people with other lift keelers too ).
My original keel developed deep pitting in a horizontal line about 1-2" above the bulb; the ballast bulb was and is fine.
About 4-5 of the 182 boats have new keels inc mine; we have newly made ones available from the original foundry; replacement is quite simple for anyone with a tiny bit of engineering knowledge though I wouldn't do it every weekend for fun !
I think my keel corroded for several reasons ganging up on me;
first off, I didn't know better for the first 10 years or so, and left the boat ashore every winter with the keel retracted.
Also, my mooring is in ' an area of accelerated steel corrosion ', last I heard still being investigated by Portsmouth Uni' Marine Metallurgy Dept;
My own theories about this are, it could be because of the nearby mains power supply to Hayling Island, or because the mud is full of German bombs - the area was the ' Starfish 16 ' decoy site to lure the Luftwaffe away from Porstsmouth's docks...
I had a welder chum try to fill the pitting, but it doesn't work - disimilar metals.
Since I fitted a small anode on my new keel there doesn't seem to be any corrosion - the anode is on the front of the plate where it protrudes from the bulb - there are no electrics in the boat anywhere near the keel assembly but as it seems to work I don't worry about how & why.
Please note, ALL lift keelers require some TLC for the keel plate, it's not particular to Andersons.
Jumbleduck is right, the keel winches are still available new and very easy to fit, though not often required; and it's a braked winch, so clicks on a ratchet pawl when raising, and lowers as quickly or slowly as one wants, it can't ' run away ' in a blurr !
I did see one awfully neglected example with a normal trailer winch fitted, so as soon as she's hoisted to launch, the keel will extend and she'll be a fin keeler - but she's not on a trailer so hopefully not the one you're considering.
BTW the A22 keel is not a flat steel plate, the leading edge is rounded and the aft third tapered to a fine edge, giving something a bit more hydrodynamic.
There's a thick tufnol shock absorber in the aft end of the keel case so the keel hopefully won't ' butterknife ' into the hull if running aground at speed.
I'm in the middle of building a new website, but the old one with a ' Buyer's Guide ' is still at
www.anderson22class.co.uk
Please feel free to PM me and exchange e-mail addresses or tel' no's and I'll happilly chat.
Regards,
Andy
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